high output alternator??
#1
Member
Thread Starter
high output alternator??
Mechman and DC Power, nope
I've disabled the voltage check and alternator check in the ECU with hp tuner flash but it doesn't have anything that can adjust the voltage.
My car gets crap voltage. Like 14.2 when cold then when it warms up it sits around 13.2v. I'd really like to get 15.5v cold and 15v warm. I don't care if the current output is less, I have monster cap banks that will hold the voltage power
So, any way to "hotwire" the stock alternator into putting out more voltage or even better, does any one make a high current replacement alternator for the LSJ?!?!
-Jamie M.
I've disabled the voltage check and alternator check in the ECU with hp tuner flash but it doesn't have anything that can adjust the voltage.
My car gets crap voltage. Like 14.2 when cold then when it warms up it sits around 13.2v. I'd really like to get 15.5v cold and 15v warm. I don't care if the current output is less, I have monster cap banks that will hold the voltage power
So, any way to "hotwire" the stock alternator into putting out more voltage or even better, does any one make a high current replacement alternator for the LSJ?!?!
-Jamie M.
#4
Senior Member
You can try finding a local rebuilder. They may be able to rebuild your stock one to put out more voltage/more amps. Most of them do quality work too, because they don't want you coming back in 2 weeks to warranty something. When I had my Focus SVT there was a place about 20 minutes from my house that rebuilt mine, granted it was just a stock rebuild, but it only cost me $80 vs a reman at $230.
#5
Member
Thread Starter
You can try finding a local rebuilder. They may be able to rebuild your stock one to put out more voltage/more amps. Most of them do quality work too, because they don't want you coming back in 2 weeks to warranty something. When I had my Focus SVT there was a place about 20 minutes from my house that rebuilt mine, granted it was just a stock rebuild, but it only cost me $80 vs a reman at $230.
I found a hack to boost the voltage, I'm getting it on monday. I'll post up if it works.
-Jamie M.
#6
Member
Thread Starter
Ok, I tried everything to boost the voltage today
Here's info on the super fancy new DIGITALLY controlled alternator http://ecuflashking.com/07cobaltSS_S...ing_system.pdf
It uses digital data to control the alternator, not reference voltage like 99% of other alternators.
That PDF says the BCM controls the alternator "by sensing the voltage on IGNITION 1 circuit as well as the positive battery line"
fml
I got some monster zener diodes and I tested them in the car. Running power through them would drop the voltage by 0.6 volts. I installed one in place of the 20amp IP IGN fuse under the hood and it made no difference in idle voltage. I also installed one in place of the 10amp HVAC/IP IGN fuse on the interior fuse block, no difference. I even replaced the 15amp PCM/ECM fuse with a diode but it made my car sound like it had a noisy diesel engine so I just turned it right off and put the fuse back.
So, any super crazy electrical guru's with a wiring diagram want to give me any pointers on where I can install the diode(s) so that the BCM thinks the voltage is too low and commands the alternator to boost it?
-Jamie M.
Here's info on the super fancy new DIGITALLY controlled alternator http://ecuflashking.com/07cobaltSS_S...ing_system.pdf
It uses digital data to control the alternator, not reference voltage like 99% of other alternators.
That PDF says the BCM controls the alternator "by sensing the voltage on IGNITION 1 circuit as well as the positive battery line"
fml
I got some monster zener diodes and I tested them in the car. Running power through them would drop the voltage by 0.6 volts. I installed one in place of the 20amp IP IGN fuse under the hood and it made no difference in idle voltage. I also installed one in place of the 10amp HVAC/IP IGN fuse on the interior fuse block, no difference. I even replaced the 15amp PCM/ECM fuse with a diode but it made my car sound like it had a noisy diesel engine so I just turned it right off and put the fuse back.
So, any super crazy electrical guru's with a wiring diagram want to give me any pointers on where I can install the diode(s) so that the BCM thinks the voltage is too low and commands the alternator to boost it?
-Jamie M.
#7
There is so much wrong with this thread that i am not going to provide a solution in fear of you doing more damage than good. but i will help you a little bit
lets start of with why in the world would you want to raise the voltage of the alternator anyway? any electronic component in the car will have some sort of VRM in it anyway that will nullify any change you make if it doesn't just fry it right away.
second, i don't think you understand what voltage is, voltage is just the potential difference across two points its not the amount of energy that is being made or used, that is what current is. so when is says the BCM is sensing the voltage it mean it sensing the drop across the +VE and the ignition circuit, this is probably just used to create a reference voltage so that the duty cycle can be calculated and therefore allow the computer to know how hard the alternator is working to determine what state it is in
third, stop what you are doing with the zener diodes, again i do not think you know what they are. a zener diodes voltage is very closely related to the current applied to it, so when you are getting a 0.6 -V across it your simply finding out part of the zener effect curve. as well a zener diode simply put will only allow current to travel in both directions when the voltage is above the "knee voltage" and only one direction when the voltage is below the breakdown point. so just throwing it in random spot in place of a fuse is a very bad idea. the fuses are there for a reason and its not to control the voltage.
and finally do not worry about your large cap banks, all they are doing is increasing the load on your alternator for no real purpose as i highly doubt that you have a capacitor bank with a low enough ESR to really have any sort of effect other than just making your battery minutely bigger.
again, this is not a thorough explanation, just pointing out a few glaring facts
lets start of with why in the world would you want to raise the voltage of the alternator anyway? any electronic component in the car will have some sort of VRM in it anyway that will nullify any change you make if it doesn't just fry it right away.
second, i don't think you understand what voltage is, voltage is just the potential difference across two points its not the amount of energy that is being made or used, that is what current is. so when is says the BCM is sensing the voltage it mean it sensing the drop across the +VE and the ignition circuit, this is probably just used to create a reference voltage so that the duty cycle can be calculated and therefore allow the computer to know how hard the alternator is working to determine what state it is in
third, stop what you are doing with the zener diodes, again i do not think you know what they are. a zener diodes voltage is very closely related to the current applied to it, so when you are getting a 0.6 -V across it your simply finding out part of the zener effect curve. as well a zener diode simply put will only allow current to travel in both directions when the voltage is above the "knee voltage" and only one direction when the voltage is below the breakdown point. so just throwing it in random spot in place of a fuse is a very bad idea. the fuses are there for a reason and its not to control the voltage.
and finally do not worry about your large cap banks, all they are doing is increasing the load on your alternator for no real purpose as i highly doubt that you have a capacitor bank with a low enough ESR to really have any sort of effect other than just making your battery minutely bigger.
again, this is not a thorough explanation, just pointing out a few glaring facts
#8
Member
Thread Starter
second, i don't think you understand what voltage is, voltage is just the potential difference across two points its not the amount of energy that is being made or used, that is what current is. so when is says the BCM is sensing the voltage it mean it sensing the drop across the +VE and the ignition circuit, this is probably just used to create a reference voltage so that the duty cycle can be calculated and therefore allow the computer to know how hard the alternator is working to determine what state it is in
third, stop what you are doing with the zener diodes, again i do not think you know what they are. a zener diodes voltage is very closely related to the current applied to it, so when you are getting a 0.6 -V across it your simply finding out part of the zener effect curve. as well a zener diode simply put will only allow current to travel in both directions when the voltage is above the "knee voltage" and only one direction when the voltage is below the breakdown point. so just throwing it in random spot in place of a fuse is a very bad idea. the fuses are there for a reason and its not to control the voltage.
Their full spec sheet: http://ecuflashking.com/07cobaltSS_SC/3000f.pdf
I think you will find their specifications to be some of the best in the industry.
-Jamie M.
Last edited by toysareforboys; 10-01-2015 at 11:47 AM.
#9
1. okay understandable i misunderstood, thought you wanted some crazy voltage boost.
2. yes an amp will work better at correct voltage, again thought you wanted some crazy boost. but the voltage has no effect capacitors ability to store energy, it is rated at a certain capacitance within a given tolerance and that is it. good choice with the AGM batteries by the way.
3. i never said the current through a zener diode only flowed one way, it can be one way or both, depending on the breakdown voltage. yes you can use them to trick the alternator on a conventional system because your changing its voltage reference, but on the cobalt the reference is made of multiple components and the computer interprets the different variables to make a decision on what phase the alternator should be in.
4. see next note
5. i find the data sheet quite funny and to be a complete joke
- first of all there is no sort of ISO or similar certification so right off the bat i know all the numbers could just be changed to whatever, there is also a ton of spelling errors, something that would never happen on a proper audited data sheet.
- the data sheet says nothing about the type of capacitor it is, in terms of materials and such (big red flag).
- the data sheet rates the cap at a whopping 2.7 volts, how this can run safety on a car where with the 14.4 volts you want i have no idea, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
- the ESR rating while okay is not great for a 3000f cap, as well they do not specify at what frequency, ripple voltage, etc. the measurement was taken at so again could be a totally non realistic scenario.
- the tolerances are all messed up, nobody has just positive tolerances. and there are no tolerances stated on things where they should be stated.
- there is no mention of internal resistance?!
- the leakage current is horrible
- REALLY low max operating temp, a classic example of a low quality cap
- there is a warning not to use it under frequent charge and discharge state, exactly what will be happening in a car
6. not a problem, glad be can have a civilized debate
2. yes an amp will work better at correct voltage, again thought you wanted some crazy boost. but the voltage has no effect capacitors ability to store energy, it is rated at a certain capacitance within a given tolerance and that is it. good choice with the AGM batteries by the way.
3. i never said the current through a zener diode only flowed one way, it can be one way or both, depending on the breakdown voltage. yes you can use them to trick the alternator on a conventional system because your changing its voltage reference, but on the cobalt the reference is made of multiple components and the computer interprets the different variables to make a decision on what phase the alternator should be in.
4. see next note
5. i find the data sheet quite funny and to be a complete joke
- first of all there is no sort of ISO or similar certification so right off the bat i know all the numbers could just be changed to whatever, there is also a ton of spelling errors, something that would never happen on a proper audited data sheet.
- the data sheet says nothing about the type of capacitor it is, in terms of materials and such (big red flag).
- the data sheet rates the cap at a whopping 2.7 volts, how this can run safety on a car where with the 14.4 volts you want i have no idea, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
- the ESR rating while okay is not great for a 3000f cap, as well they do not specify at what frequency, ripple voltage, etc. the measurement was taken at so again could be a totally non realistic scenario.
- the tolerances are all messed up, nobody has just positive tolerances. and there are no tolerances stated on things where they should be stated.
- there is no mention of internal resistance?!
- the leakage current is horrible
- REALLY low max operating temp, a classic example of a low quality cap
- there is a warning not to use it under frequent charge and discharge state, exactly what will be happening in a car
6. not a problem, glad be can have a civilized debate
#10
Member
Thread Starter
So you don't know where I can trick ALL the components? I'll run the entire BCM at 0.6 volts less if I have to
Mine:
LICK FOR HIGH RES!
Purchased for $240 shipped from: Free shipping 16V 500F 2.7V 3000F Auto rectifier-in Other Electronic Components from Electronic Components & Supplies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
I had to upgrade the link plates because I melted the little copper straps that it came assembled with.
I just asked them about this, and they said there is a mistake on the data sheet, it's 5mA, not 5A lol!
Me too
-Jamie M.
#11
1. 90% of capacitors (not some exotic caps) the voltage has no effect on the capacitance, although as you increase the voltage your charge per volt reduces, make sense?
2. i will do some looking around
3. fair enough, you can add caps in series to increase the voltage rating, but i would only do this with bleeder resistors across each cap to ensure the 1/2 node is exactly half the applied voltage.
4. maxwell makes a 3400f at 0.22mOhm and eaton makes a 3000f at 0.23mOhm
5. fair enough 65* is plenty for a car
6. okay good, thats much better
7. 10% or 100% change is still almost the same, its the rapid cycling that caps hate, i can dig up my old textbook for the reasoning that i now forget but im lazy and dont want to go find it, hope you dont mind lol
2. i will do some looking around
3. fair enough, you can add caps in series to increase the voltage rating, but i would only do this with bleeder resistors across each cap to ensure the 1/2 node is exactly half the applied voltage.
4. maxwell makes a 3400f at 0.22mOhm and eaton makes a 3000f at 0.23mOhm
5. fair enough 65* is plenty for a car
6. okay good, thats much better
7. 10% or 100% change is still almost the same, its the rapid cycling that caps hate, i can dig up my old textbook for the reasoning that i now forget but im lazy and dont want to go find it, hope you dont mind lol
#12
Member
Thread Starter
I didn't have a good way to mount it (it's a bare circuit board) and with my caps not being fused I was super worried it'd touch stuff it wasn't supposed to, so I monitored each cap voltage carefully (using six x.00v displays). The ONLY time I ever noticed it get out of balance is if I had every accessory off in the car (headlights, heated seats, radio, etc.) and drove at a steady speed for a long amount of time (like 45 mins or more), than a few of the caps were +0.1v or -0.1v (more like .02v or so off, but I doubt the exact accuracy of my chinese volt meters). Causing a current draw like the headlights, heated seats, defog, or when starting the car (if I had turned it off) automatically put all of the caps in perfect balance. Is it more important to keep them balanced as they age, in case they age differently?? I asked the manufacturer about running without the balance board and they said as long as the caps don't sit at the same voltage for long periods of time or if I'm not running them over 15.6 volts then I didn't need the balance boards.
-Jamie M.
Last edited by toysareforboys; 10-02-2015 at 10:25 PM.
#13
1. i see, should have mentioned that before haha, that is good then. yes it is important or the caps will age differently and their specs will degrade at different rates, causing an exponential cycle to occur possibly even causing some major performance issues
2. eaton make some really nice stuff, never tried a maxwell one though
3. caps dont outright fail unless your a complete moron with them, and i would hate to see one that big go. but they do degrade over time and use, some more than others. its the change of state that they dont like and without hooking up a scope to your car when you play music i have no idea how good or bad the problem is. It is dc power there is no frequency, only amplitude, you will always be at 0 Hz, just depends on the state of the cap. the current will always come from the path of least resistance, almost always your alternator, until it can no longer provide the power in which case the cap provides a buffer, im sure you know this. so to find out how many times the cap is changing states i would need to log it using a scope, this is one of the elements in what determines how fast it will degrade
2. eaton make some really nice stuff, never tried a maxwell one though
3. caps dont outright fail unless your a complete moron with them, and i would hate to see one that big go. but they do degrade over time and use, some more than others. its the change of state that they dont like and without hooking up a scope to your car when you play music i have no idea how good or bad the problem is. It is dc power there is no frequency, only amplitude, you will always be at 0 Hz, just depends on the state of the cap. the current will always come from the path of least resistance, almost always your alternator, until it can no longer provide the power in which case the cap provides a buffer, im sure you know this. so to find out how many times the cap is changing states i would need to log it using a scope, this is one of the elements in what determines how fast it will degrade
#14
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Thread Starter
-Jamie M.
#15
cool, i would love to see the log, always wanted to try this.
#16
Member
Thread Starter
So, I got a monster custom alternator built, just got it today, but it's got a bit of pulley wobble. Something I should be worried about?
Let me know what you think.
-Jamie M.
Let me know what you think.
-Jamie M.
#18
Senior Member
#19
Member
Thread Starter
-Jamie M.
#20
Member
Thread Starter
So I finally made a vid of my car, was going to wait until the new alternator and good voltage, but with the bad news about the pulley wobble I figured I'd do one anyway.
Going to need to use a different/better camera, this one freaks out and reset at high volume
***TURN YOUR SPEAKERS/HEADPHONES WAY DOWN***
-Jamie M.
Going to need to use a different/better camera, this one freaks out and reset at high volume
***TURN YOUR SPEAKERS/HEADPHONES WAY DOWN***
-Jamie M.
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