ahhh...then i do both sometimes. i always rev match.

 

Wha?

I explained pretty clear cut what rev matching is...and you can downshift to slow down....but...heel-toe is the same as rev-matching only your are adding in the braking...

 

ive got to work on my heeltoe, but i always rev match...

 

I honestly have no clue how to do any of that...

 

I most def don't double clutch, that looks too time consuming. lol...No heel toe here either. Rev match sometimes, but when I'm not doing that I don't just dump her into a lower gear, I ease it in. lol

 

by ease it in, i guess you mean burn the clutch?

 

hahahaha

 

Rev matching for sure, but I haven't gotten the hang of heel-toe yet.

 

all the time

 

depends on my mood. rev match when feeling lazy heel toe when ummm...spirited lol

 

Heel toe, never had a situation which requires the use of heel toe. Rev match on the other hand, only used when passing cars and need that umph...

 

I heel/toe for fun occasionally, but I don't see any reason to bother in standard driving. The only time I bother rev-matching is when I'm downshifting to overtake, or to maintain speed on a hill. Otherwise I just hold the clutch down and use the brakes, they're easier to replace than the clutch.

BTW - For all that don't know...

REV MATCHING: The process of manipulating the throttle so as to ensure that engine speed is appropriate for the vehicle's current speed and gear being selected.

There is a direct relationship between RPMs and speed. The higher your RPMs, the higher your speed. However, because engines reach their peak efficiency within a relatively narrow RPM band, and because vehicles have to operate at a wide range of speeds, we need to use gearing to adjust the relationship between speed and RPM.

This all seems incredibly elementary, but it's amazing how many people (even ones' who drive manuals) don't understand the concept. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone, I just want to make sure we're all in the same frame of mind .

As I said before, there is a direct relationship between RPM and speed. Meaning that, if you double the RPMs, you double the speed. 10mph at 1000rpm means you will see 20mph at 2000rpms. However, this also means that by the time you reach 60mph, you're seeing 6000rpm, engines use a lot of gas at 6000rpms, they also don't last very long... So that's why we shift.

But when we shift something happens, the car's speed remains the same, but the relationship between RPMs and speed changes. It is still considered "direct" (no matter what gear you are in, zero rpms = 0 mph), but now 10mph equals only 500rpm. That puts 60mph at 3000rpm, which is far more reasonable. So let's say you're going 30mph at 3000rpm and you decide it's time to upshift, when you engage the next gear you will still be going 30mph, but that translates to only 1500rpms, when you had 3000rpms just a second before. If your engine is still running at 3000rpms when you upshift, there is a mismatch between RPMs and speed, and that puts stress on the driveline and can cause the car to lurch forward suddenly as physics forces the RPM and speed to match.

In order to avoid putting undue stress on the driveline (and to make our rides relatively comfortable) we are all taught to lift off the throttle while holding the clutch down and upshifting so that the rpms will have an opportunity to fall from 3000 to 1500 while there is no direct connection between the engine and the wheels. This is rev matching.

However, the type of rev matching that people are referring to in this thread is downshift rev matching. It is the same idea, (manipulating the throttle so that engine rpm reaches an appropriate range before a different gear ratio is engaged) but in reverse. Say your cruising at 30mph at 1500rpm and you're approaching a steep hill. You need more power to get up it, so you also need more rpms. You decide to downshift. Now you're going 30mph at 3000rpm. If you didn't rev match, though, there is a mismatch between RPM and speed and you end up putting stress on the driveline and the car suddenly slows (almost like you've just stomped on the brakes). To avoid this, you lightly step on the throttle while the clutch is down, to raise the RPMs to 3000, then you release the clutch pedal, giving you a nice, gentle, rev matched shift.

HEEL & TOEING: A specific technique of rev matching that allows you to manipulate the throttle, brake, and clutch at the same time.

First off, heel & toeing is not something you need to do on the street. It can be fun, and it's always a proud moment when you get it right the first time, but if you feel you need to, then you're going too fast or are downshifting at too high a speed, at the wrong time. Race car drivers do it to keep their engines in the power band while preventing damage to the drivetrain and maintaining the car's balance when it's the most crucial, during heavy braking and cornering.

If you're approaching a corner that forces a dramatic reduction in speed, you'll likely need to brake and downshift. Since you now know about rev matching, you decide that it would prudent to try and save your drivetrain, and to not jostle the pretty young thing in the seat next to you. But there's a problem, you've got the clutch depressed for the shift, and the brake depressed so you don't skid off the corner into a tree. Both of your feet are in use. How will you depress the throttle in order to raise your rpms for the rev match?

The answer, heel & toe. It's quite simple to describe, but rather more difficult to perform. Basically, your left foot operates the clutch, then your right foot depresses both the brake and throttle at the same time. How you position your foot exactly depends on how you sit and how your pedals are arranged, but basically you will start with your heel firmly planted on the floor. This gives you a point of reference that allows you to more accurately apply braking and throttle. You then place the ball of your foot on the edge of the brake pedal, so that the right side of your foot will contact the throttle pedal.

Then you practice. Every car and every foot is different so the exact technique is different. Some cars you can just mash both pedals down, others you have to depress the brake a lot and the throttle very little, requiring you to twist your foot slightly. Still other require you to twist the other way, to depress the throttle more than the brake.

.................................................

I hope this helps, it was a bit long-winded, but that's the way I am at times. Have fun.

 

^good post.

i rev match every single time i downshift.

heel-toe could use a little bit of work but its getting better.

 

Computer does it for me.

With a manual.. Nah... Well sometimes.

 

When I do downshift I will always match the revs . Daily driving though I will almost always pop it in neutral and coast to a stop .

 

i dont do this, i just let the clutch out smoothly, i have had multiple compliments about my driving too... that and i dont know how to rev match, i taught myself how to drive stick, so i just tought myself how to be smooth, nothing fancy lol

 

again, you mean burn the clutch

 

I still don't get the heel-toe. I have never found a situation even when agressively driving bends that requires it. Maybe people just can't move thier feet fast enough? I always rev match, but even at that... most bends don't even require the brake if you can rev match well enough. In the rare cases, it still seems easier to hit each seperate since the delay is less than a second anyway if you are fast. I would think trying to mess with the heel-toe would actually slow you down trying to get your foot positioned.

 

well i miss understood the question. thought u meant who shifts by rev matching instead of using the clutch. but i guess that goes into the whole heel-toe thing aswell because i do the same but its kind of a necessary when downshifting without the clutch.

and if you know what your doing heel-toe is almost second nature, and remember every second counts though it may not seem like your saving anytime spread that out over a few laps around a track.

 

i guess it's something that comes with practice. it comes in handy here in north jersey when you're doing 80 on the highway, take your ramp, and it's a 20mph turn.

the pedals make it hard in this car though.

 

I find it hard to believe the poll which shows 45% heel and toe. I don't believe anywhere near that percentage know how to do it much less actually do it.

I rev match and heel and toe every time I get the opportunity. Practice makes perfect. The pedal layout is good in the Cobalt, nearly as good as in the Z06. Downshifting without braking? Rev match. Downshifting with braking? Use heel and toe.

Shifting is more fun and rewarding if you use these techniques. Those techniques are optional for the street but mandatory for road racers on the track in order to keep the car balanced and save wear and tear on the tranny and clutch.

A tip from the Corvette racing school at Spring Mountain: Beginning students take a 3 day course where they learn heel and toe, then use it on the racetrack. They make about 1000 shifts/day. They used to get about 7-10 thousand miles out of a clutch. Then they changed they way they teach. Every start from a standstill was made with no gas and they just eased the clutch out till they got rolling. Result? they no longer burned out clutches even though they ran cars 40,000 miles plus.

It was the high rpm clutch slipping starts that generated the heat to burn out clutches. The heel and toe race track work was not a problem.

I taught my son to drive the SS/SC they same way.

Follow the link, scroll down and click on 1 Lap to see/hear how its done! Fun, fun, fun!

http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/


https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...light=shifting

 

x2

 

I rev match.

 

Rev matching ftw.



btw please dont neutral coast....its dangerous, and in some cases illegal.
not to mention it actually uses more gas than downshifting properly.

 

sometimes i heel toe it and other times i just do the nutral drop