Looking for opinions on ss/sc set up
03-04-2018, 11:07 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Looking for opinions on ss/sc set up
I’m not sure if this is where I go with this, if not I’m sorry. I have a 2006 ss/sc that we use for an ice racing car that my son drives and I am looking to do some work this summer. The only things the car has done so far is a shorty header which we bent and I stallled a 2 1/2” down pipe and that runs into a 28” cherry bomb muffler to quiet it down a little and add a touch of back pressure and there is also a zzp cold air intake. What zzp has suggested was a stage 3 kit with 60lb injectors and a dual pass end plate. They are suggesting a 2.9 pulley with that. They also brought up running e85 to get 8-12% more power. This year I’d like to stay in the $1000-$1200 range because as my wife says “it’s only an ice racer” lol. I was thinking about putting in the 82lb valve springs also so they can bump the rev limiter up some. The car will be run in second gear wide open. I brought up the ls throttle body and zzp doesn't think it will help much. There are 2 cars that we are trying to catch on the track. One is a Honda Prelude which we have in the straights until the cobalt hits the rev limiter and the other one is a neon coupe with a na 2.0 that moves, his rev limiter is 7800 so we all know it isn’t close to being stock. We are running 205/65/15 tires in the front, a 205/60/15 in the right rear and a 195/60/15 in the left rear. All the tires have about 1000 screws that stick out 3/8” for traction. I’ve been looking at adding a rear sway bar also to help in the corners. These car move on the ice goin 70-80mph in the straights. I guess my main question is the e85, is it a good idea or do I stay with a 91-93 tune? Just looking for suggestions at this point and to see what you guys think. Thank you!!
03-05-2018, 01:01 AM
#2
e85 is great for making power, the problem your going to run into is going to be getting the car started on e85 in the freezing cold. e85 doesnt like to vaporise well under 40 degrees, thats why in colder weather the pump e85 is more like e50-e70. there is a lot of work that comes with e85 in these cars being they arent flex fuel, you need to test the e85 your getting at the pump and adjust the tune as needed for the different ethanol contents. yes e85 will make more power, but for what your doing id stick with gas.
the zzp stage 3 kit will wake the car up a bunch. many people run smaller pulleys, however if your going to spend a lot of time in the high rpm range id start with a 2.9" pulley as recommended. heat soak isnt going to be a big issue in the cold weather so you may be able to go with a smaller pulley, however with the 2.9" you should have enough power to beat the cars you listed.
if your wanting to push the rev limiter up, 82lb springs are a must. moreso, the balance shafts become an issue as you approach 7500rpm, they tend to explode. either install neutral shafts or a balance shaft delete kit. the stock cams arent doing you any favors at that high an rpm either.
so whats the deal with why the other cars can pass you on the straights? is the straight not long enough to go for 3rd gear and use it, or once you hit 3rd the other cars drive around you? assuming the car doesnt have a gm stage kit on it, your going to gain 50-60hp at the tire, so assuming the same track length you will likely spend more time in 3rd gear. myself, i wouldnt spend a bunch of time and money changing springs and balance shafts trying to increase the rev limiter (although its still not a bad idea to do those things) as the added power is going to change everything, and to me it sounds more like the gear ratios are not optimal for your track. with your current setup, the ss turbo 3.82 transaxle may be more optimal as it would give a little more speed, however this transaxle is a little more fragile. the other option would be a 4.45 final drive transaxle, the parts to do these are getting harder to come by, however this would likely allow you to run in 3rd gear happily.
the zzp stage 3 kit will wake the car up a bunch. many people run smaller pulleys, however if your going to spend a lot of time in the high rpm range id start with a 2.9" pulley as recommended. heat soak isnt going to be a big issue in the cold weather so you may be able to go with a smaller pulley, however with the 2.9" you should have enough power to beat the cars you listed.
if your wanting to push the rev limiter up, 82lb springs are a must. moreso, the balance shafts become an issue as you approach 7500rpm, they tend to explode. either install neutral shafts or a balance shaft delete kit. the stock cams arent doing you any favors at that high an rpm either.
so whats the deal with why the other cars can pass you on the straights? is the straight not long enough to go for 3rd gear and use it, or once you hit 3rd the other cars drive around you? assuming the car doesnt have a gm stage kit on it, your going to gain 50-60hp at the tire, so assuming the same track length you will likely spend more time in 3rd gear. myself, i wouldnt spend a bunch of time and money changing springs and balance shafts trying to increase the rev limiter (although its still not a bad idea to do those things) as the added power is going to change everything, and to me it sounds more like the gear ratios are not optimal for your track. with your current setup, the ss turbo 3.82 transaxle may be more optimal as it would give a little more speed, however this transaxle is a little more fragile. the other option would be a 4.45 final drive transaxle, the parts to do these are getting harder to come by, however this would likely allow you to run in 3rd gear happily.
03-05-2018, 08:04 AM
#3
New Member
Thread Starter
What an awesome reply, thank you!! He’s hitting the rev limiter of 6500 I think about 1/2 way down the straights, it’s not a very long track I think it’s a 1/2 mile per lap if I remember correctly. He played around with trying 3rd in the hot laps but it didn’t seem to do him any good because the corners came up too fast. I have been reading posts for a while about porting the sc and bigger throttle body but they all have mixed reviews. The way that we try to beat the axle ratio problem is by changing tire sizes but it really sucks spending a whole day doing 2 tires just to find out that they don’t work lol. I like the cam replacement idea but that would eat up a huge part of my budget this year. I haven’t looked into the balance shafts much but I have seen mention of them, I will have to read up some posts about them.
03-05-2018, 01:38 PM
#4
porting the supercharger has very limited results, when i did mine i found i dropped the air temps a couple degrees, nothing major. same with the bigger throttle body, it makes the throttle more touchy, felt like it had more midrange power, but in reality the gains are small. i think with the zzp kit your going to have more than enough horsepower, itll just be getting the gear ratios sorted to work best for you
one other thing i forgot to mention with the increased rpm is the crank damper, it tends to be an issue above 7500 rpm as well. both ati and fluidamper make aftermarket dampers. like i mentioned above, the cost to push the rev limiter much past 7000 gets up there, at least while keeping things reliable.
on the flip side of that, something else to know about the ecotec platform is extended time on the rev limiter can cause oil pump gear failure. what actually happens is the snout of the crank damer starts to expand from the harmonics and it splits the gears into pieces. this really is few and far between for failures, id suspect its most common on turbo cars trying to spool the turbo on a 2 step. years go gm did have a set of hardened oil pump gears available, however that supply seems to have dried up. back to the ati balancer, the harder snout and being a press fit to the rank (stock damper just slips on) would help a lot to solving this. my recommendation would be to teach your son that when it hits the limiter not to hold it there, to lift off the throttle a bit and keep it just under the limiter.
one other thing i forgot to mention with the increased rpm is the crank damper, it tends to be an issue above 7500 rpm as well. both ati and fluidamper make aftermarket dampers. like i mentioned above, the cost to push the rev limiter much past 7000 gets up there, at least while keeping things reliable.
on the flip side of that, something else to know about the ecotec platform is extended time on the rev limiter can cause oil pump gear failure. what actually happens is the snout of the crank damer starts to expand from the harmonics and it splits the gears into pieces. this really is few and far between for failures, id suspect its most common on turbo cars trying to spool the turbo on a 2 step. years go gm did have a set of hardened oil pump gears available, however that supply seems to have dried up. back to the ati balancer, the harder snout and being a press fit to the rank (stock damper just slips on) would help a lot to solving this. my recommendation would be to teach your son that when it hits the limiter not to hold it there, to lift off the throttle a bit and keep it just under the limiter.
03-05-2018, 02:25 PM
#5
New Member
Thread Starter
I’ve been looking at cams and neutral balance shafts and boy is it ever $$ to go fast lol. I read a lot about the ati damper and I thought it was suggested after 7800 or 8k, I could be wrong thou. How he ran this year with the limiter was he bounced off of it twice and then let up. I wonder for this year if I should just do the stage 3 with the cooling supporting mods and see how it goes? I’ve also tend to over think things like if I decide to do cams do I do a new timing chain, do I pull the motor and look at the rod bearings, clutch and stuff..... This is why I’m looking for advice and opinions lol
03-05-2018, 02:45 PM
#6
the thing with the stock blower is it will only support so much horsepower, you can start doing internal engine mods and make things more efficient, but you wont make a bunch more power. im putting down 275 whp on a reliable street setup (2.7" pulley), once you start doing cams, head porting, and valvetrain, dropping the pulley down more will get you just over 300 whp. or, you could leave the internals stock and drop an eaton tvs blower on and be closer to 330 whp, however your still not going to be able to rev real high. its not really the horsepower that costs the money, its the rpm that does.
i would say go with the stage 3 kit and see where it takes you. it really wakes these cars up, (50-60 whp). it may allow you to use 3rd gear a lot more and keep the rpm down. these engines do make very good torque for the 4 banger, its wise to use that. like i said before, once you try it out playing with gear ratios would be the next thing.
i would say go with the stage 3 kit and see where it takes you. it really wakes these cars up, (50-60 whp). it may allow you to use 3rd gear a lot more and keep the rpm down. these engines do make very good torque for the 4 banger, its wise to use that. like i said before, once you try it out playing with gear ratios would be the next thing.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JshLnsctt
Parts
7
07-08-2015 06:15 PM
hungryhip-ccp
Parts
1
03-11-2010 08:30 AM