09 SS full suspension upgrades
04-03-2020, 11:03 AM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
09 SS full suspension upgrades
Hey guys, I am planning out my 09 SS suspension build and need some input please.
Your recommendations please on the following.
-Parts (oem or aftermarket)
-Brands recommended
-supporting modifications if applicable
-Benefits to running these parts
I daily drive my cobalt and I want to over all build a high performance street car. I have performance and longevity in mind here as I plan on buying a new motor and tranny in the future.
I have read on several aspects of doing these modifications so I am not completely in the dark. I wanted to start a new thread in hopes to create a build list for an application like mine what I want to do.
Parts I am considering (front to back):
1. Front control arm bushings (both ends, Powell or OTTP?)
2. Sway bar end links (Moog or Powergrid or Whiteline?)
3. Transmission and motor mounts (rotated but need the best parts, probably Powell's but how are ZZP and OTTP on these?)
4. Stock front sway bar or larger? New bushings here too.
5 Under Car Rails (Powell or OTTP?) Price diff is big factor
6. Rear bushings (Powell or other?)
7. Rear sway bar (ZZP, Powell or OTTP?)
8. New hubs all four corners (brands or oem?)
9. Lastly, CED offers YYZ and LNF struts package, better options or stick with Powell on this?
What supporting parts need to be replaced for these items?
Are there any other mods that can be done to an LNF?
Input and experience here is greatly appreciated!
and.....GO!
Your recommendations please on the following.
-Parts (oem or aftermarket)
-Brands recommended
-supporting modifications if applicable
-Benefits to running these parts
I daily drive my cobalt and I want to over all build a high performance street car. I have performance and longevity in mind here as I plan on buying a new motor and tranny in the future.
I have read on several aspects of doing these modifications so I am not completely in the dark. I wanted to start a new thread in hopes to create a build list for an application like mine what I want to do.
Parts I am considering (front to back):
1. Front control arm bushings (both ends, Powell or OTTP?)
2. Sway bar end links (Moog or Powergrid or Whiteline?)
3. Transmission and motor mounts (rotated but need the best parts, probably Powell's but how are ZZP and OTTP on these?)
4. Stock front sway bar or larger? New bushings here too.
5 Under Car Rails (Powell or OTTP?) Price diff is big factor
6. Rear bushings (Powell or other?)
7. Rear sway bar (ZZP, Powell or OTTP?)
8. New hubs all four corners (brands or oem?)
9. Lastly, CED offers YYZ and LNF struts package, better options or stick with Powell on this?
What supporting parts need to be replaced for these items?
Are there any other mods that can be done to an LNF?
Input and experience here is greatly appreciated!
and.....GO!
04-03-2020, 12:00 PM
#2
Parts I am considering (front to back):
1. Front control arm bushings (both ends, Powell or OTTP?)
2. Sway bar end links (Moog or Powergrid or Whiteline?)
3. Transmission and motor mounts (rotated but need the best parts, probably Powell's but how are ZZP and OTTP on these?)
4. Stock front sway bar or larger? New bushings here too.
5 Under Car Rails (Powell or OTTP?) Price diff is big factor
6. Rear bushings (Powell or other?)
7. Rear sway bar (ZZP, Powell or OTTP?)
8. New hubs all four corners (brands or oem?)
9. Lastly, CED offers YYZ and LNF struts package, better options or stick with Powell on this?
What supporting parts need to be replaced for these items?
Are there any other mods that can be done to an LNF?
Input and experience here is greatly appreciated!
1. Front control arm bushings (both ends, Powell or OTTP?)
2. Sway bar end links (Moog or Powergrid or Whiteline?)
3. Transmission and motor mounts (rotated but need the best parts, probably Powell's but how are ZZP and OTTP on these?)
4. Stock front sway bar or larger? New bushings here too.
5 Under Car Rails (Powell or OTTP?) Price diff is big factor
6. Rear bushings (Powell or other?)
7. Rear sway bar (ZZP, Powell or OTTP?)
8. New hubs all four corners (brands or oem?)
9. Lastly, CED offers YYZ and LNF struts package, better options or stick with Powell on this?
What supporting parts need to be replaced for these items?
Are there any other mods that can be done to an LNF?
Input and experience here is greatly appreciated!
2. I've had Powergrids for over a decade (based on a Powell recommendation
). They've never rusted - even when I lived in Ohio), never fallen apart, etc. Top quality pieces. I can't comment on the others.3. I think LNF's have rotated mounts from the factory. This was a problem for LSJ that GM fixed on the LNF. Again, Powell was the one that noted the problem, pointed it out, and started selling rotated mounts. Everyone else was just selling Poly inserts that made your dash vibrate like an out-of-balance washing machine. Again, I have his mounts and can't comment on the others... but I'm pretty sure everyone else just copied his basic design. The real question is what sort of bushing is everyone else using... that's what's going to separate them on quality.
4. Stick with the stock front bar. It's what the Grand-Am Cup cars used.
5. Powell is the original. No one offered anything like these until after he did. Looks like OTTP's are designed to be welded in and then painted. Powell's UCRs bolt in (you need to drill holes) and then you essentially glue them to your pinch welds. I'm pretty sure there's an extensive How-to on this website.
6. Does anyone else offer rear beam bushings/bearings?
7. I don't know whose design OTTP and ZZP is following these days. I do know that Powell's designs are based on the bars he tested on the Time Attack Cobalt. You'll see that mentioned in a lot of parts (for instance, OTTP's front CAB's...), "Time Attack Style", because that car was a purpose built corner carver that kicked a bit of ass.
8. I think most go with Timkin, iirc... but I may not be. There are people out there that will drill them in 5x114.3, which opens up your wheel selection to a much wider spectrum. I know Mongorat does them on Facebook. I can get you his FB name, if you want.
9. I've never been satisfied with the selection we have for suspension, but John has put in a TON of track hours working on perfecting the YYZ's. I know he's working with Bilstein right now to have shocks valved to be perfectly paired with his YYZ's. He already finished that setup for the Camaros... pretty sure he's getting close to finished with the Deltas. LNF shocks are good though and should pair well enough with the YYZ's for now.
What I didn't see on your list are steering rack spacers. Same as all the others, Powell created these parts on his own car after noticing that once the car was lowered, the steering arms weren't properly aligned, and the car was subject to a lot more bump steer. No one offered them, he made a thread and discussed why they were needed, and now everyone offers their own version.
With all of that said, as well, I like the guys at ZZP and Josh at OTTP. They're all generally good people and you can't really go wrong by doing business with any of them.
Last edited by USMCFieldMP; 04-03-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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04-03-2020, 12:19 PM
#3
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All great info. I would stay away from Timkin, Quality has taken a nosedive; I just went to autozone and picked up duralast which I had for 2 years before I flipped my car. Just remember to use anti-seize on the contact points or else it's a nightmare to take apart. I used a sledgehammer to tear apart the Timkin set I had.
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Zo6balt (04-03-2020)
04-03-2020, 12:20 PM
#4
1. I have Powell everything. This topic will come up a lot, so here's a quick run down: Powell made a lot of these parts first while others offered bullshit alternatives that didn't actually solve problems. He used to sell a lot of his parts through OTTP... but they had a big falling out about 10 years ago... lawsuit, etc. Powell is the original, everyone else is a copy. So you can support the original or just try to find the cheapest deal possible (building cars is not cheap... I think we all understand that). I doubt there are any huge differences in quality with any of them. So it all comes down to your personal philosophy towards supporting vendors and people that actually make things for these cars. With that said, ZZP does sell a number of Powell's parts on their website.
2. I've had Powergrids for over a decade (based on a Powell recommendation). They've never rusted - even when I lived in Ohio), never fallen apart, etc. Top quality pieces. I can't comment on the others.
3. I think LNF's have rotated mounts from the factory. This was a problem for LSJ that GM fixed on the LNF. Again, Powell was the one that noted the problem, pointed it out, and started selling rotated mounts. Everyone else was just selling Poly inserts that made your dash vibrate like an out-of-balance washing machine. Again, I have his mounts and can't comment on the others... but I'm pretty sure everyone else just copied his basic design. The real question is what sort of bushing is everyone else using... that's what's going to separate them on quality.
4. Stick with the stock front bar. It's what the Grand-Am Cup cars used.
5. Powell is the original. No one offered anything like these until after he did. Looks like OTTP's are designed to be welded in and then painted. Powell's UCRs bolt in (you need to drill holes) and then you essentially glue them to your pinch welds. I'm pretty sure there's an extensive How-to on this website.
6. Does anyone else offer rear beam bushings/bearings?
7. I don't know whose design OTTP and ZZP is following these days. I do know that Powell's designs are based on the bars he tested on the Time Attack Cobalt. You'll see that mentioned in a lot of parts (for instance, OTTP's front CAB's...), "Time Attack Style", because that car was a purpose built corner carver that kicked a bit of ass.
8. I think most go with Timkin, iirc... but I may not be. There are people out there that will drill them in 5x114.3, which opens up your wheel selection to a much wider spectrum. I know Mongorat does them on Facebook. I can get you his FB name, if you want.
9. I've never been satisfied with the selection we have for suspension, but John has put in a TON of track hours working on perfecting the YYZ's. I know he's working with Bilstein right now to have shocks valved to be perfectly paired with his YYZ's. He already finished that setup for the Camaros... pretty sure he's getting close to finished with the Deltas. LNF shocks are good though and should pair well enough with the YYZ's for now.
What I didn't see on your list are steering rack spacers. Same as all the others, Powell created these parts on his own car after noticing that once the car was lowered, the steering arms weren't properly aligned, and the car was subject to a lot more bump steer. No one offered them, he made a thread and discussed why they were needed, and now everyone offers their own version.
With all of that said, as well, I like the guys at ZZP and Josh at OTTP. They're all generally good people and you can't really go wrong by doing business with any of them.
2. I've had Powergrids for over a decade (based on a Powell recommendation
). They've never rusted - even when I lived in Ohio), never fallen apart, etc. Top quality pieces. I can't comment on the others.3. I think LNF's have rotated mounts from the factory. This was a problem for LSJ that GM fixed on the LNF. Again, Powell was the one that noted the problem, pointed it out, and started selling rotated mounts. Everyone else was just selling Poly inserts that made your dash vibrate like an out-of-balance washing machine. Again, I have his mounts and can't comment on the others... but I'm pretty sure everyone else just copied his basic design. The real question is what sort of bushing is everyone else using... that's what's going to separate them on quality.
4. Stick with the stock front bar. It's what the Grand-Am Cup cars used.
5. Powell is the original. No one offered anything like these until after he did. Looks like OTTP's are designed to be welded in and then painted. Powell's UCRs bolt in (you need to drill holes) and then you essentially glue them to your pinch welds. I'm pretty sure there's an extensive How-to on this website.
6. Does anyone else offer rear beam bushings/bearings?
7. I don't know whose design OTTP and ZZP is following these days. I do know that Powell's designs are based on the bars he tested on the Time Attack Cobalt. You'll see that mentioned in a lot of parts (for instance, OTTP's front CAB's...), "Time Attack Style", because that car was a purpose built corner carver that kicked a bit of ass.
8. I think most go with Timkin, iirc... but I may not be. There are people out there that will drill them in 5x114.3, which opens up your wheel selection to a much wider spectrum. I know Mongorat does them on Facebook. I can get you his FB name, if you want.
9. I've never been satisfied with the selection we have for suspension, but John has put in a TON of track hours working on perfecting the YYZ's. I know he's working with Bilstein right now to have shocks valved to be perfectly paired with his YYZ's. He already finished that setup for the Camaros... pretty sure he's getting close to finished with the Deltas. LNF shocks are good though and should pair well enough with the YYZ's for now.
What I didn't see on your list are steering rack spacers. Same as all the others, Powell created these parts on his own car after noticing that once the car was lowered, the steering arms weren't properly aligned, and the car was subject to a lot more bump steer. No one offered them, he made a thread and discussed why they were needed, and now everyone offers their own version.
With all of that said, as well, I like the guys at ZZP and Josh at OTTP. They're all generally good people and you can't really go wrong by doing business with any of them.
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Zo6balt (04-03-2020)
04-03-2020, 11:02 PM
#6
New Member
Thread Starter
Wow you all are awesome!!! I luckily still have work at this time of madness in the country and world. Figure we all have a lot of home time!? I didn't expect the replies this quickly.
THANK YOU GUYS!
So the verdict essentially is Powell is the delta guru as he has actually applicable experience and lots of R&D.
I am glad to hear powergrids are the way to go. Seems like a no brainer as well as the stock front bar.
Hubs are still an interesting one. Touch more on later.
I will chime back in tomorrow.
THANK YOU GUYS!
So the verdict essentially is Powell is the delta guru as he has actually applicable experience and lots of R&D.
I am glad to hear powergrids are the way to go. Seems like a no brainer as well as the stock front bar.
Hubs are still an interesting one. Touch more on later.
I will chime back in tomorrow.
Last edited by Zo6balt; 04-05-2020 at 11:23 PM.
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michael23v (04-04-2020)
04-05-2020, 12:53 PM
#7
For #6 the rear beam bushing the only that I've seen that sells those is Powell. Powell makes great stuff but for sure comes at a price.
Regarding the hubs I would leave those alone unless they are failing. But if you want to change them out regardless then just get something that has a good warranty and I've seen the aftermarket on those aren't the best
For YYZ I say wait it out until Powell comes out with the bilstein like mentioned above. That will be the most up to date he offers.
But for the most part it all depends on you. I have several parts for all 3 companies and I've never had any issues with any of them so you cant really go wrong with powell, OTTP and ZZP. In the end it's what your budget allows and what you want to get
Regarding the hubs I would leave those alone unless they are failing. But if you want to change them out regardless then just get something that has a good warranty and I've seen the aftermarket on those aren't the best
For YYZ I say wait it out until Powell comes out with the bilstein like mentioned above. That will be the most up to date he offers.
But for the most part it all depends on you. I have several parts for all 3 companies and I've never had any issues with any of them so you cant really go wrong with powell, OTTP and ZZP. In the end it's what your budget allows and what you want to get
Last edited by Snail_SS; 04-05-2020 at 12:59 PM.
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04-05-2020, 11:33 PM
#8
New Member
Thread Starter
I agree with you guys. Good feedback, i appreciate it.
i will stay with oem hubs then until they begin to fail.
Priority first. CABs need replacement. My front end clunks around a ton. At 98k miles.
struts and shocks seem like they are fine so i will wait for the new yyz combo.
have any of you thought of designs or parts where we could custom fab parts to improve our platforms?
I would enjoy testing things to see if they work. I have access to a shop and the right tools to experiment.
i just am not sure where to start after my upgrades are taken care of.
i will stay with oem hubs then until they begin to fail.
Priority first. CABs need replacement. My front end clunks around a ton. At 98k miles.
struts and shocks seem like they are fine so i will wait for the new yyz combo.
have any of you thought of designs or parts where we could custom fab parts to improve our platforms?
I would enjoy testing things to see if they work. I have access to a shop and the right tools to experiment.
i just am not sure where to start after my upgrades are taken care of.
04-06-2020, 06:01 PM
#9
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R&D for the sake of it is just looking for problems, and you'll probably find plenty. Honestly with the people on the forum, sure there's been some nifty little builds but they also apply to some very specific issue(s). Off the top of my head: meth spray, and competition audio setups see the most practical aspects of such DIY. Retros being another but those come in quality kits these days so there isn't much "outside the box" thinking required.
The thing I would probably focus on more is the air cooling of the engine/turbo to a low enough level that won't interfere with A/F (combustion itself) but will allow for better response/more HP. I watched a video a while back why engines have to be a certain temperature range and too cold/hot affects performance and life of the engine.
The thing I would probably focus on more is the air cooling of the engine/turbo to a low enough level that won't interfere with A/F (combustion itself) but will allow for better response/more HP. I watched a video a while back why engines have to be a certain temperature range and too cold/hot affects performance and life of the engine.
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Zo6balt (04-06-2020)
04-06-2020, 08:18 PM
#10
New Member
Thread Starter
R&D for the sake of it is just looking for problems, and you'll probably find plenty. Honestly with the people on the forum, sure there's been some nifty little builds but they also apply to some very specific issue(s). Off the top of my head: meth spray, and competition audio setups see the most practical aspects of such DIY. Retros being another but those come in quality kits these days so there isn't much "outside the box" thinking required.
The thing I would probably focus on more is the air cooling of the engine/turbo to a low enough level that won't interfere with A/F (combustion itself) but will allow for better response/more HP. I watched a video a while back why engines have to be a certain temperature range and too cold/hot affects performance and life of the engine.
The thing I would probably focus on more is the air cooling of the engine/turbo to a low enough level that won't interfere with A/F (combustion itself) but will allow for better response/more HP. I watched a video a while back why engines have to be a certain temperature range and too cold/hot affects performance and life of the engine.
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Zo6balt (04-06-2020)
04-06-2020, 09:58 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Did i miss something? Are you in El Paso?!
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Zo6balt (04-07-2020)
04-07-2020, 08:34 AM
#14
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Zo6balt (04-07-2020)
04-07-2020, 09:29 AM
#16
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i have seen you driving down Montana lol. I think we have the only 2 white ss coupes with highrise spoilers in town!!
questions, where do you take your car to get serviced? I need a reliable shop with experience with our cars.
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Zo6balt (04-07-2020)
04-07-2020, 09:15 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
right on man, maybe that was your old coupe if it stayed here. Anyhow hope to see the sedan soon! thats pretty awesome you do your work yourself, i wish i had the free time (and proper tools, lol)
04-07-2020, 09:46 PM
#19
It could of been for sure, I sold it to a guy working on Odessa but then a few months ago I saw it on sale by another person so idk how many hands it's gone thru now and the status. It was a good car. Yeah it saves me alot of money to work on the car myself. Dont have all the tools but have enough and know enough to do my own work. Right now I'm doing timing chain. Time is a big problem for me as well but I work on it when I have a chance or just ask for pto lol
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Zo6balt (04-08-2020)
04-08-2020, 12:10 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Center louver only, i believe this would work on a cobalt hood.
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Zo6balt (04-08-2020)
04-08-2020, 03:50 PM
#22
Senior Member
For #6 the rear beam bushing the only that I've seen that sells those is Powell. Powell makes great stuff but for sure comes at a price.
Regarding the hubs I would leave those alone unless they are failing. But if you want to change them out regardless then just get something that has a good warranty and I've seen the aftermarket on those aren't the best
For YYZ I say wait it out until Powell comes out with the bilstein like mentioned above. That will be the most up to date he offers.
But for the most part it all depends on you. I have several parts for all 3 companies and I've never had any issues with any of them so you cant really go wrong with powell, OTTP and ZZP. In the end it's what your budget allows and what you want to get
Regarding the hubs I would leave those alone unless they are failing. But if you want to change them out regardless then just get something that has a good warranty and I've seen the aftermarket on those aren't the best
For YYZ I say wait it out until Powell comes out with the bilstein like mentioned above. That will be the most up to date he offers.
But for the most part it all depends on you. I have several parts for all 3 companies and I've never had any issues with any of them so you cant really go wrong with powell, OTTP and ZZP. In the end it's what your budget allows and what you want to get
Moog makes the rear suspension bushings also. Rock auto sells them. They will probably be the ones i'm going to get. Powells are nice but way too expensive.
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Zo6balt (04-08-2020)
04-08-2020, 09:16 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
I don't exactly remember which video it was, but it was this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqJ1cLiY4As
Very informative, yet also hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqJ1cLiY4As
Very informative, yet also hilarious.
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Zo6balt (04-08-2020)
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