LSJ

The car is lowered on H&R super sports.

I got my new tires mounted and balanced. Proceeded to put it on the alignment rack, toe was a good bit off on both sides in the front. Got that dialed into spec.

Car previously "pulled" to the right. With toe in spec, it no longer "pulls" but "drifts" and the wheel wants to go to the right. With the wheel held straight, the car goes straight.

Tried different roads, different lanes, switching the wheels to opposite sides of the car, tire pressure, etc. All obvious things were checked.

Specs are as follows, since I can assure this might help. The tech at my work told me that we will check it again Monday but he is not sure as to why it is still pulling.

Front left.. Toe: 0.12°, Camber: -0.9°
Front right.. Toe: 0.09°, Camber: -1.4°

Rear left.. Toe: 0.02°, Camber: -0.2°
Rear right.. Toe: 0.14°, Camber: -1.0°

Any ideas?

BlackARCA06

iTrader: (5)

Did you lock your steering wheel in place when you did the alignment?

LSJ

Yep!

calicobaltSS

ok...heres alist of questions...first..what kind of tires and size...two..did he do the alignment BEFORE or AFTER the new tires...three...how much of a distance does it go strait before it goes right....also...I need to see the CASTER readings....if its drifting to the right....it could be either the caster is wrong....or it could be road crown....if you hold the steering wheel strait and it goes strait..then its fine...cars naturly want to go to the right on streets (that are not in shitty condition) because their should be more (sometimes the same amount) of caster on the right because it will pull to the LEAST postive of the two so your not having to hold the streeing wheel to go strait on a street....

LSJ

1. Continental Contact Extreme DWS 225/40/18
2. After
3. It drifts to the right as soon as I let go.

There were no caster readings. Caster is not "adjustable" (notice how I put it in quotes), and the car was aligned to factory spec. Thus, not showing caster.

Yes, if the wheel is straight, the car goes straight. It does feel like I am fighting the car a tiny bit, to hold it straight.

AcesNEights

iTrader: (4)

Could have a bad steering column. Mine did this exact same thing, but my front end rattled when I went over bumps. Took it to dealer last tuesday and they put in a new steering rack the next day. Now rides better than ever.

blackjack hotrods

In my experience you would want to have a total toe reading of .1 degree which means you only want around .05 degree of toe on each wheel. This might not be what the factory spec says but you no longer have factory suspension. The toe being as positive as it is would make the car a little "darty" on the road. The 2 things that would make it pull or drift are camber(think of how motorcycles turn by leaning) and caster. Your camber is a little more negative on both sides than I would set it but since you have more negative on the right than the left it shouldn't try to pull right. It's pretty hard to get a front wheel drive to pull and with your camber numbers it would want to pull left if anything. Strange that it is still drifting to the right. Try setting the toe where I suggested and see how that works.

blackjack hotrods

Also, is there any chance that anything is bent? That positive toe number on the right rear is a little concerning to me.

LSJ

Exactly what my buddy who is a tech told me. He said that the toe of 0.14° would drag it to the right.

Here is a strange thing he found though........

He said that "TECHNICALLY" the lower control arm bushing "TECHNICALLY" controls caster. If the bushing is warn, it will cause the wheel to sit a certain way, either positive or negative, and pull the car to that side.

My passenger side CAB is much worse than the driver side, and he said that since the driver side is not as bad, it is pulling to the passenger side. Which is why everything is in spec, but still pulling.

Nothing is bent - 100% positive of that. The rear toe he said should not pose exactly that much of an issue. Not compared to front caster.

Let me know what you think, as it seems very possible at this point. The rest of the suspension is 100% tight, no problems of any sort besides the destroyed CAB on the passenger side, and the driver which is behind, but will be sure to catch up.

BLKLS

Are the brakes hanging up? Your name is lsj so I'm guessing you got four wheel disk but check your brakes make sure they army hanging up on the right side. I also remember reading something about the strut bushing/bearing and it's orientation, there's some kind of tab or notch that if it's not lined up properly then it will cause a pull. Check into that, and redo your alignment from another board, set your front toe to zero, ignore your machine and set it to zero on both sides. They also say to set the front camber to -1.6 on both sides. I have my camber close to -1 and I set my toe to zero. Made a world of difference in bow the car drive. Just do it. You made need to look into the steering rack spacers also.


I didn't see about your CAB's. Fix that ****. It will make a difference

LSJ

Brakes are not dragging AFAIK. Tab is lined up correctly.

I am on springs, no camber adjustable. Either way, they're fairly close to -1.6°

I am going to get spherical CABs and they re align.

Steering rack spacers would help if bumps were involved. Roads tested on were flat, freshly paved.

heathkidder

iTrader: (20)

mine is doing the exact same. when i lowered my car with stock tires on i had it aligned then i put my ss/tc rims on and just recently the past few months iv realized that it pulls alot more now so i dk if it was knocked outta alignment or what

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

sounds like you lowered your car put the H&R springs on and cocked up the top bearing placement in the install. my.02c

LSJ

I am not trying to argue, I would just like to know what you mean? And how is it possible - What leads you to believe this.

Which side would it be?

Lastly, the destroyed passenger CAB has nothing to do with it? Since it controls caster movement.

LS6Rally

iTrader: (14)

if you know the CAB is bad, and you know that it can directly effect your alignment. fix that and see where it gets you first.

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

cabs do affect aligment but when worn they are inconsistent but in my experience, do not cause the car to , ( in your words )"With toe in spec, it no longer "pulls" but "drifts" and the wheel wants to go to the right. With the wheel held straight, the car goes straight."

when a top spring hat bearing creates friction and binds, this can happen - a drift one way or the other. The caster "self centering" action is also diminished. I have this very issue on my wntr brt cavvy. the top strut bearings are rusted and bind.

but in your case, it is also possible the car is leading to the right due to road camber. All roads pretty much are crowned from the center to the side. This also can cause what you are experiencing.

so does incorrect tire pressures.

oh and one more thing?
probably 80-80% of issues on these forums are the result of faulty installs/tunes/etc

LSJ

I tried different roads, different sides of roads, etc. Same result. Tire pressures are fine. Rule those both out.

Also, what would you recommend for toe for daily use? Do my current specs show anything wrong?

How do I "fix" top bearing placement? If it is not correct.

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

Disregard the shims in the spring hat thats a Redline conversion part. If the bearing gets out of place the strut will still bolt up, but not work right and bind. check that. I had an install nearly go sideways but happily I always shine a lite up and take a peek before I install the strut ( on the car, no spring compressor) with a spring compressor off the car, its easier to get the bearing perfectly aligned and installed. The spring hat tab has to be lined up with the top coil end cut off . thats important already mentioned by another poster

I run zero toe in
at the end of the day all the suspension parts need to be fixed if a problem. I developed all weather spherical replacement control arm bushings for the trailing position, a genuine Powell hardcore race parts first used in racing in 2004.

199. try that.

Sunburst_SS

well, not to skip over something as simple as a tire pull.....you did put new tires on the same time you lowered and aligned it correct? Did you try swapping tires side to side or front to back and see if it changes?

LSJ

Okay, so line the tab up with the end of the spring coil up top? Lastly what about the bearing just make sure it is flat?

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

yes it has to fit in the recess; the bearing has a larger side to it, that will be on top; and make sure it doesnt fall out as you release the spring compressor, or lift it into position if you are doing it on the car.
put a little sticky assembly grease on the bearing lower half to help it stay in position..

LSJ

Leading to my next question - Can this be seen on the car? Bearing and hat tab? Or must I remove anything. I'm assuming not since you said "on the car".

blackjack hotrods

I would definitely go for the CAB first and see what happens. Even though caster is not adjustable there is still a spec and the suspension should be within those specs and a caster measurement should always be taken to be sure that something isn't out of whack. If Powell has some experience with the bearing hats you can go with that too as I don't have any experience with that specific problem. A bad budging could even give good reading during the alignment but when torque & power is applied things can shift around and screw up the works. Everything has to be sound before a proper alignment can be performed. I'm interested to see how this ends up. Best of luck.

LSJ

I will be ordering the sphercal CABs from Powell. Meanwhile I will try to play with the strut. Notice I said TRY.

Tomorrow is my day off so rest assured I will get the ball rolling, and take some pictures of the strut and post them here so John can let me know if need adjustments with the hat and bearing or not.

Thank you guys thus far! We will see!