stagezero

So on my way up to go get a new tune on my car i ran into a V8 supercharged 520hp mercedes and needless to say he was more than happy to race but no happy when he lost. He was probly thinkin like everyone else does "its just a cobalt". we were on the highway at 75mph and did 2 races both times got him by about 5 cars. thats when i was 353 now im done with my newest tune and lookin at 370whp now

Hugger1975

damn!

Billig ss/sc

iTrader: (5)

Good **** man. These cars f'ing love turbos

LE5_AJ

wtf fort sill ok. i was down there a couple months ago doing a steel building on the base

Dafunk13

Do you have any track time? You put 5 cars in a roll race on a car that traps 114-118 stock. Your car must move out...

amxguy1970

Yeah, I don't doubt he won with 370 whp but 5 cars sounds excessive, especially from a highway roll with a car geared for highway running (as opposed to a car geared for saving gas).

Tyler

Mike09SS

5 cars is a HUGE win. probably more like 1 1/2 /2 cars sounds more realistic.

blackvette101

The cobalt has more aggresive gearing after you factor in the final drive ratios.

E63
First Gear Ratio (:1) 4.38
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.86
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.92
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.37
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.82
Reverse Ratio (:1) 3.42/3.07
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 2.65

Cobalt SS
First Gear Ratio (:1) 3.58
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.02
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.35
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.98
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.69
Reverse Ratio (:1) 3.31
Clutch Size N/A in
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.84

Also the most E63s dyno around the area of 420whp. His cobalt does 370 whp. That puts a 50whp advantage for the mercedes. But the cobalt weighs 1054 pounds less then the E63. Or if you look at wheel hp to weight ratio its clear that it was at least 5 cars.

E63=9.6# PER WHP
SS=7.9# PER WHP

Thats a huge differance

stagezero

no track times sorry to say im affraid to break **** lol. plus bein fwd doesnt help too much froma dig so i stick to roll races but the balt ****** moves and the boost feels like a shot of nitris lol, roll races are my sweetspot. but even then on a serious note my buddy was with me and can verify it was 5 cars on the second race. he doesnt have an account on here but if u wanna hear it from someone else ill have him post on here.

now this guy was thinkin! and did his homework and logic and math. sounds resonable to me.......i beat a luxury car that had massive power but they are heavy.

Dayta

iTrader: (1)

nice win dude!

amxguy1970

First we need the OP to differentiate which car it was (not that it really matters) either the super charged E55 or NA E63. Second, look at the torque numbers if it was the super charged E55. Third, look at the Third and fourth gears of the two cars (where they would be racing) even with the final drive that arguement becomes void (they are almost equal). Aggressively geared and highway geard are two completely different things. Fourth, reading it again the OP said he was at 353 fwhp. Finally, look at the numbers. Either model of that car traps in upwards of 118, the OP would need to trap a healthy 120+ to do the 5+ car he claims on a car designed for highway runs. Shoot, take a balt and vette with similar power (close weight) and run them on the highway, who do you think would win that???

Like I said I don't doubt he won but it was probably a car or so and then the merc let off, 5+ just isn't happening unless something is a fault in the merc. There are 340whp TC's (with alot more torque then the OP) that aren't trapping 118 let alone 120+. The numbers just don't add up (and that isn't even figuring in the torque numbers).

Tyler

stagezero

Dear Mr. Tyler

for one it was a supercharged V8 and another comparing a vette to that is way un realistic cause a vette still waighs alot less than that merc. and has better top end......and also to let u know my cobalt still would weigh in about 400 pounds less than a vette so to say a vette and a cobalt weigh about the same is false(http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2009/...sons/trim.html) check it there( i have weighed mine and with no passenger its 2800). and i ran side by side with my buddies C6 vette on the highway till topend when i had 353. its all about the weight of the cars in the convo and the vette is more agressively geared than both the cobalt or the merc. so the vette was a bad choice to throw in there. the point is a cobalt beat a heavy as high HP car. and ill have my friend make an account on here just to let u know he was there and saw it. and to talk about trap speed is unrealistic also cause u wouldnt even begin to try and figure mine out since i have never ran it at the track and my tune is setup differently...........

damn i think i ran on too long about that

blackvette101

ill address the gearing the mercedes has a 7 speed tranny and if you look at the mph in gear for the mercedes you will find that as the cobalt is in 3rd the merc is in 4th and as the balt is in 4th the merc is in 5th. if you take a look at the mercedes numbers you will see that they rarely trap 118 in fact the majority of E63s trap 113-115 just because a few trap 118 doesn't mean they all do. And the e55 is even slower than the 63. Also it's actually a common misconception that cars that have long gears are faster on the highway. For instance if you were to take 2 of the exact same cars one with ''highway'' gears and the other with aggresive gearing the car with the aggresive will pull in its's first 4 gears. But in the cobalt and most other cars those 1st 4 gears will go up to like 120 or highway speeds to most people. The only advantage the long geared car had is when the short geared car hit overdrive. But since on stock redline 4th goes to like 120 and the op has a redline of 7500 his 4th goes alot longer so i doubt he went into 5th therefore the mercs ''highway gears'' just hurt it. I don't believe the corvette has anything to do with this matter and it's just a red herring.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...ag-Racing.html

stagezero

another thing to add to this piece of art is that a roll race is a whole different beast than a dig so 1/4 mile times have nothing to do with it tyler, thanks blacky for doin the homework on this

LE5_AJ

yes but trap speeds do lol

SuperchargedSS

amxguy got bitched...

blackvette101

lol

amxguy1970

That is a start...

The vette thing was an IDEA speaking about power to weight that gets thrown around the cobalt world like that is all that matters. When highway running so much more plays into that!

The bold part right there shows why 5 cars is too much because a C6 wouldn't pull that on a E55, kind of shot your self in the foot there eh?

Having your "friend" come on here and tell us would actually hurt your claims, so don't try it.

Trap speeds are just a guess, but looking at your numbers and comparing them to other similar number cars of the economy car class you can guess a good ball park. And figuring your torque numbers are way down to some of the bolted and tuned tc's then...

First 4? I would say more like first 3. No, the only advantage isn't when the short gear car hits over drive, there is a thing call shifts, more shifts equal lost time and more time out of a power band. That is where proper gearing comes in matched to the cars engine, which a merc has as opposed to an economy car inspired sporty car like the cobalt. Those guys spend hours and hours matching the engine to the gearing to the shift points.

Again, it was used as an example as two similar weight and power cars that are set up differently, nothing more.

118 traps are the high ones, but that is what a capable driver can do (in the 1/4), when rolling on the highway the launch is taken out of it and a car like that is still easily capable to traps like that.

Times no, but look below mmmkay...

Bingo!

Really, how? What did you do in this conversation other then keep boasting about your "friend"?



PS Blackvette, you may want to look at your friends previous post because he pointed out it is the supercharged version which is the E55, not E63. Also it uses the 5 speed auto not the 7. The 7 is used in the new 63. Also they are pretty equal in terms of numbers mainly given to the large torque numbers of the E55 able to keep up with the higher hp of the 63.

Damn I got so bitched...

Tyler

BTW Black, what have you got done to your vette other then spray? I am guessing a H/C set up? I don't think I have seen a Cam only LS2 hit 480 whp. I my self am looking at L92 set ups, love the bang for the buck.

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

1/4 mile trap speeds have no bearing on this discussion what so ever. you looking at a FWD vs RWD. The FWD car isnt going to get the better trap speeds here just based on that fact.

1BADSS/SC

nice kill.

LSJ's love teh turbo.

blackvette101

1st i'd like to say that if he did run even with a STOCK vette this whole debate is void because a stock vette ain't fast enough to pull a E55 by 5 cars. But 2nd you are wrong about it being 3 gears because even in the 4th 1:1 ratio the final drive still applies therefore the aggressively geared car will be faster in 1:1. 3rd yeah obviously the guy with the aggresive gears will have to shift sooner but there is little chance that he will have to shift more. The only way that would apply is if the race ends well one guy in 4th and the other is still in third. Most highway races end at the leading cars 4th gear redline. Its highly more probable that the trailing car is in the bottom of 4th then in the top of 3rd if its a close race. Its an advantage yes, but one that rarely comes into play. Yeah you can talk about the vette but in the end were comparing a heavy high hp car to a lighter car with less hp not 2 light cars with similer hp. 4th all engines are differant even in the same cars with the same parts. You take the launch out of the equation it makes it easier but it doesn't mean all E55s run exactly the same from a roll. This is especially true with hand built engine, check out Z06 dynos you will see swings of 30 to 40 whp. When i got my degree in automotive technology i had this teacher that all he would say was that engines are like snowflakes every single one is unique. Thats why when you look at stock cars you want to look at not the highest or lowest trap but the average trap speeds which are great indicators of roll racing. I knew a guy with an E55 and stock he couldn't get that thing higher than 116 even with 42 degree wheather and dry ice chilling on his blower between runs and a 1.6 60 foot on drag radials. Furthermore if the car he raced was an E55 they are slower because of there even worse gearing then the 63. I'll put up some proof here

This is from a dig where the 55 torque advantage is most important
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JniP0Lcfb2Y

This 55 has a hard time with a much heavier and less aerodynamic station wagon 63 it only starts catching it as the 63 goes into overdrive because they race to 160 mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hejWoCAjVMs

heres a video of a 55 beating a 63 showing how all the cars are differant even when built the same
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YaHyBnf7P8

The corvette has a h/c package with a 232/240 cam with patriot heads and and a fast 92 and all the bolt on stuff. But i have heard great things about the L92 and i would of went with that but the fast 102 wasn't out yet. If i could do it again i would go with some ported L92s with a fast 102 i probably could of hit 500 or 520 whp.

Micro

"Items in your rear-view mirror are closer than they appear"...

stagezero

actually thats ur passenger side view buddy read the mirror next time and i dont see cars in my rearview cause im looking in my sideview(most races start side by side not one in front of another)

****** noobs anyways this thread is more of a bitch session now
but would like to add beat him on second race by five, and bein that he was supercharged he more than likely had heatsoak and everyone who owned an LSJ engine will say when a SC is hot u lose power, it might just be possible that i beat him more on the second run cause he was hot.....just sayin