You can talk about rallying and road courses all you want, but the bottom line is that being able to run a rally race is useless in everyday driving. People don't catch each other at stops lights and say "yo lets go rally race I know a good place"

Bottom line is that a Cobalt SS S/C or Dodge SRT-4 will hang with or beat your car from a roll for $10,000 less. Of course you will respond with "well roll racing is teh ghey", being that your car only puts down 240WHP and needs a 5K clutch drop in order to break into the 13's

Of course I can also make a nice list of vehicles that will beat your STi from any speed, roll or dig, for about the same price or cheaper:

Mustang GT
Pontiac GTO
Camaro/Trans Am LS1
Mustang Cobra

 

Dude you are the biggest joke on this board. Do you catch people at lights and go "lets race from a roll." Ask anybody that is fast and they will tell you roll racing is dumb. Period.

NO mustang GT can keep up with an STI from a dig. I raped a new one w/ exhaust from a dig 3x, a few weeks ago. I have beat 2 LS1s. Not too many GTOs race here and almost every cobra here is in the 11s. Once again you're talking out your ass while driving a rental car. Have some respect.

 

Quit arguing and go to bed dammit!

 

A Honda CRX, Civic hatch, OR Del Sol with a b18c5 swap, Koni Yellows, Ground control kit, rear sway bar, 15" lightweight wheels, and tires. AND you would have money left over for an extra set of wheels and tires. Or pretty much any Super Honda class racer.

You post a pic of a riced out Del Sol and bash Hondas in general. You apparently have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Right...you say I'm a joke, yet you are an STi owner trolling a Cobalt board claiming to beat every damn car under the sun. Your precious STi isn't the supercar you make it out to be, and for the record you definitely didn't "rape" a 2005 Mustang GT nor any LS1 Camaro/Firebirds. Even if you got the launch (obviously), they would still reel you in and walk you like you were going backwards one they get traction.

Don't tell me to "have some respect", I'll respect whatever the hell I feel like "respecting", and that sure wouldn't be you nor your ugly ass 4-door family sedan

 

I really do feel sorry for you.

To limit an argument about a cars performance to roll racing alone is pretty silly. However, given the limited abilities of your car I’m not surprised by your choice to do so. As for the STI getting beat up on by stock SS/SC and STR-4’s, not so much. Close roll races? Sure, but I’ve never witnessed (and I’ve seen quite a few) a race where an STI got walked by these cars. Outside of the childish and very illegal realm of roll racing, the STI will dominate the SRT-4 and SS/SC in all other pertinent categories. Push come to shove the STI at the very least is just as fast as SS/SC or SRT-4 from a roll, and far better at doing the other stuff that counts at the race track. For those of us who aren’t 17 this has value, and is a clear justification for an increase in price (The increased price can also be justified by resale value and overall reliability, but I’ll leave that one alone).

I’ll be the first to admit that there is very little utility to being able to drive my car around a rally course, but the abilities built in to allow this does transfer to everyday driving. For those of us who live in the Northern parts of the US, it pays to have a car that can drive in bad weather. The STI can do this, and as such I don’t need two cars in order to get around in the bad winter weather. This ability saves me money.

As for the family sedan comments, well I hate to break it to you, but the SS is built on a platform that also supports a 4-door car. If you look at the SS you can see the unusually large space between the doors and the trunk area where the rear doors belong They may have adjusted the frame a bit, but the fact still remains that the Cobalt is not built on a purposed 2-door sports car frame.

Looks, well they are subjective, and I can’t argue with your personal assessment that the STI is ugly. I also can’t argue with your assessment that the SS is good looking. What I can say is that your opinion is just that, an opinion. I know a whole lot of people who would tend to disagree with your assessment.

 

Your older sti may look good but almost everyone will agree that the new front end on the sti is hideous. I don't see how they could screw up a perfectly fine looking car that much.

 

Trust me when I say this! You will eventually learn to like the new front end more than the old. I hated the new front end when I first saw it, but with time you really start to appreciate it.

 

bah no way Fugly! Ill always like the older one better.

 

Fair enought, can't argue, but the new front end was hardly the point of my original post.

 

Why do you feel sorry?? No need. I didn't limit my arguement to only roll racing, I just pointed out the fact that the STi is only fast from a dig with a hard launch, due to it being AWD. From anything other than a dig, it can't outrun vehicles costing over $10,000 less. if I'm going to pay $32K for a performance car, it better damn be able to out accelerate a $21K car, from any speed, dig or roll.

I don't see what good AWD is in the snow if the car is too low to drive through it. Your front air damn would be acting as a snow plow in anything more than a couple inches of snow, which is totally useless. I'd rather just get a performance vehicle for cheaper without AWD and then just get a $500 winter beater. Just makes more sense to me.

Thats a very weak arguement you got there man. Who cares if the Cobalt is available as a 4-door?? Bottom line is that the SS S/C is a 2-door coupe, not a 4-door, end of story. There is also no "unusually large area between the doors and the trunk", thats called the back seat

Well I think the majority would agree that the new STi is ugly, but as you said, its a matter of personal opinion.

 

I feel sorry for you because you fail to appreciate lateral acceleration and the ability to get the car around a track/auto x course with speed. Your focused only on a cars ability to accelerate. On that note, the STI is fast from a dig and a roll becuase it puts down 240 to the wheels, not just becuase it's all wheel drive. And regardless if you want to believe it or not, and STI will slowly walk an SS from a roll. I've personally witnessed this about half a dozen times.

As for snow clearance your fine in deep snow so long as your not flying, and the snow isn't frozen. But even in low levels of snow, or plowed snow the STI is better than most SUV's. Owning and insuring two cars is not as cheap as owning only one. The winter beater might make sense to you if you like wasting money.

 

so how about a lock, a simple post about me racing my friend in a turbo del sol turned into an argument.

 

I AGREE!

 

Or you want a dedicated track car for solo2 and a winter beater rolled up into one. A Civic, CRX, or Del Sol make great track cars with little money and with cheapo snow tires on the front they can act double duty as a snow mobile in the winter. No reason to bash on your DD in the summer on the track or drag it around in the salt. You can have a bone stock $1000 Civic with decent stock sized tires on it that would love to take the abuse. Not to mention you could be more competitive in the Civic in a stock class. And you don't have to worry about taking it easy because you have to drive it to work on Monday. Insure it as a recreational vehicle and the annual costs are practically nothing.

 

Thats the beauty of the STI, its a very tough car. Unless your launching it every chance you get, you don't have to worry about breaking stuff. Furthermore the point of racing isn't to pick the easiest class and try and get a cheap win. You should look to go out and beat the best, thats the only way you truely get better.

In any case, calling an STI overpriced because a car designed to do one thing well can keep up with it doing that one thing is just silly. Your going to have a hard time finding a car as well rounded as the STI for a similar price. Even the EVO MR is 2-3 g's more expensive than the STI.

 

The car may be tough. I have seen two sti's blow trannys on the track though. And you should be launching it every chance you get on the track. The tires aren't cheap and neither are the brakes and washing it everyday in the winter to keep the salt off of it can't be fun either. A seperate set of tires and wheels for your car and a seperate set of brake pads plus the time spent fiddling with them at the track and you could have had a seperate car all together.

I disagree with your second statement. First and foremost the stock Honda classes are not easy. Not by any means. They are very competitive. I didn't say you would get easy wins. You don't take a Cessna pilot and stick him in an F-16 to make him better. Same with racing. Its a progression. If you go up against someone in equal cars who has paid his dues in slower cars and you have not you will lose. There are guys out there that drive beater ass Cavaliers that could get in your car and beat your times in one lap.

The whole point is that it is not a waste of money. Many people like to have a car they can beat on and not worry about. It is much more fun and you will learn faster if you get on the track with a car you don't have to worry about, that's easy to drive, and allows you to concentrate. If you have to worry about launching at the start for fear your tranny is gonna blow or that your brakes will get warped then it kinda takes something away from it.

My situation for example. The SS/SCs tires are too expensive, the wheels are too big, and I need the warranty. For me to autox it I would have to invest in rotors, pads, and new tires and still worry about breaking it. I'll keep on thrashing my CRX on the track and driving my SS/SC on the street. Stock Honda motors are practically free so I don't care if I blow it up.

 

We were talking about new cars. And I hope your second paragragh was not in response to me, because I have never bashed any cars on this site beside Wesman's rental car that he forgot to return. And I do know what I am talking about.

PS. Wesman, Hertz called they want their Cavalier back.

 

I don't think you understand. Its not a matter of me not appreciating lateral acceleration, its just not my top priority in a performance car. Just about every sports/performance car on the market now handles at least reasonably well, so I'd rather focus on acceleration, since there is a huge gap between something like a $24K RSX-S and a $26K Mustang GT, even though the prices are relatively close.

Personally I'd rather have an LS1 6-speed Trans Am or Camaro over an STi any day. Preferably a T/A with the WS6 handling and performance package. With the WS6/SS package, the F-body runs the cones at 64.6MPH. The STi runs the slalom at 65.9MPH. Not a huge difference by any means, especially not in everyday driving. Not only can you pick up a Camaro/Trans Am for $12K less than an STi, but its faster, handles 8/10ths as well, looks incomparably better, is more more driveable due to much more low end torque, more powerful, sounds 10 times better, and on top of all that it still gets better gas mileage. I wouldn't even think twice given a choice between the two.

So its really worth the wear, tear, and damage on your car to drive it in the winter when you could just get a beater for cheap and pay very little insurance?? Theres pretty much a guarentee that you are going to end up damaging your car, whether you slide off the road, get stuck, or the salt just ends up eating it from the inside out. Spending over $30K for a car and then ruining it by driving in the snow: Now thats a waste of money.

Did they really?? Wow, I wish you would have told me that 2 years ago when I got it, I'm going to have one hell of a charge on my credit card.

Japan called me and told me they wanted your rice box 4-door sedan back, but then when they saw how goddamn ugly it was and heard the angry bees coming from your exhaust, they didn't want it back and decided to just let you keep it

 

Firehawk-- http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=2

Displacement..........346 cu in, 5665cc
Power (SAE net)..........335 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque (SAE net)..........350 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Transmission..........6-speed manual
Wheelbase..........101.1 in
Length..........193.7 in
Curb weight..........3576 lb
Zero to 60 mph..........5.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph..........12.2 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph..........6.2 sec
Standing 1/4-mile..........13.6 sec @ 106 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph..........197 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad..........0.88 g
EPA fuel economy, city driving..........19 mpg
C/D-observed fuel economy..........14 mpg


STI-- http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...on/index9.html
Test Data
Acceleration, sec to mph
0-30.... 1.2
0-40 .... 2.2
0-50 .... 3.2
0-60 .... 4.7
0-70.... 6.4
0-80 .... 8.5
0-90 .... 10.8
0-100 .... 13.2
1/4 mile, sec @ mph....13.3 @ 100.1
Braking, 100-0 mph,ft .... 315
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft ....113
600-ft slalom, mph .... 69.7
200-ft skidpad, avg .... 0.90
Roadcourse lap, min:sec.... 1:35.37
MT fig-eight, sec @ avg g .... 26.07 @ 0.70
Top-gear rpm @ 60 mph .... 2500

EPA mpg, city/hwy ....18 / 24
Range, miles, city/hwy .... 286 / 382

STI insurance is less then LS1 insurance. Even so I really like LS1s, but I just can't stand how you sit in them. I am 6' and still feel like I have to sit up in my seat to look over the nose of the car.



Weak at best.

 

Thats not accurate to get the specs for each car from two different sources. You can hardly compare the two when the tests aren't even the same. The information for the Trans Am isn't even accurate, it does 5-60MPH in about 5.5 seconds, not 6.2, thats a big difference.

Thats not you, thats just the seating position in the car relative to the cowl and hood. In the STi, you almost feel as if you are leaning forward, over the dash and looking down on the hood. In the F-Body, you sit down inside the car, with the dash at chest level, and all you can really see is the hood scoops through the windshield. Just different approaches to seating position, thats all.

 

The new STi can best be compared to this highly successful vehicle:

 

Actually the topic is Turbo Del Sol which is not a new car. And no I wasn't talking about you.

 

LOOKS

Again with the looks Wesman, completely subjective! I think F-Bodies look white trash, but I would never say something like there ugly, or x car is better looking. So please stop with the car is ugly and various other insults. It makes you sound like a tool.

OLD CARS WITH NO WARRANTY

If you haven't noticed they don't make F-Bodies anymore, why do you think that is? It certainly isn't because they were too popular. I and most people wouldn't want to buy an old sports car that’s been beaten to hell, only to have to dump more and more money into it to keep it running. Fact is, they don't make any AMERICAN cars right now that compete with the STI in overall performance, and price. Deal with it.

Lateral Acceleration

Lateral Acceleration is not your thing for one of the following reasons. A. They don't make a GM car in your price range that does it well B. You’re a 17 year old loser who gets off dusting off guys in BMW's. Take your pick. In any case, I hope you grow out of it, because American companies have lost focus of what makes a complete car. All they do now-a-days is add more HP and hope people buy it.

Bad Weather:

I'm not talking about driving the thing in 10 feet of snow. I see you’re from Jersey, and when it snowed a couple of weeks ago, I didn't have any problems getting around. My previous car an RX-8 would have been grounded for a couple of days. It's not so much the thick stuff, its being able to drive and park on poorly plowed streets.

YOUR BIAS

I'm done arguing with you, it's a hopeless cause. You don't like foreign cars, and can't be told differently about them. No argument is too silly when you’re trying to make a point. I mean do you ever freaking listen to yourself?

 

An STi is a better car than most cars made today, however, it's not COOLER than a cobra, WS6, etc.