COOLER? What does that mean. That another subjective term, used when the argument isn't in your favor. Both cars are really really fast, but Cooler than an STI, depends on who you ask.

 

I like both but I think an LS1 SS or ws6 is way cooler than an STI. Which one is a better "overall" car? Sti hands down IMHO. You are right, there are no good overall American performance cars in that price range now. The GTO is probably the closest one.

 

I was interested in the GTO, but its all Drag/Roll Racing, and little else. GM made a really powerful car without any handling. I just don't understand why they don't wake up and realize that HP is not the end all and be all of cars.

Good Comparision of the two, they come to a similar conclusion:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=105773

 

I'm not going to tell you what you say, but thats generally not a problem. The STI transmission is designed by PRO DRIVE (hardcore rally company), and is probably one of the toughest out there.

The WRX, well thats a different story, perhaps thats what you saw.

 

No. They were stis. I have seen a wrx blow his tranny at the dragstrip though.

 

The STi isn't cooler than a cobra because it has a 4 banger sound, and looks like your average econobox grocery getter. It is a better car though. An STi blends in, kind of like a Toyota Camry, but a muscle car is a muscle car, and everyone knows it.

 

The fact remains that the COOL thing is your opinion. As far as sound goes, the STI has a fantastic rumble sound. It doesn't sound ricey at all, and not like any 4 cylinder I have ever heard before. To me, an STI with an aftermarket exhaust sounds a lot like a 5.0 Mustang with cam work. I don't know what Camry's in your area look like, but I've never seen one that looks like an STI. I have also never seen an STI that blends in, but what do I know.

I will give you this, Muscle cars are Muscle cars. What does that mean? Not much. A lot of American's have a love affair with Muscle, and I'm one of them. However I also happen to like drivability and handling. For some strange reason, American car companies have never figured out how to make muscle and these things work together. When they do, I'll own it.

As far as the Cobra not looking like an economy car I beg to differ. The 6 cyl Mustangs are cheap and very very common. So in a round about way they are economy boxes. Since the Cobra looks like the 6 cyl Mustangs the only possible conclusion is that it too looks like an econ box.

 

Actually thats pretty ironic considering that Evo drivers have had their warrantys voided just for being spotted at the track. Not even racing, just being there, and the whole warranty is null and void. You say that there isn't an American car that competes with the STi?? Well maybe not directly, but for the same cost, you can have a 400HP GTO thats faster, has a much nicer interior, looks 10x better (IMO), and still gets better fuel economy.

You are starting to sound like an import troll with the "American cars don't handle" stereotypes. The GTO handles damn well considering its size and weight, in fact its not too far behond the STi, look at the numbers:


Roadholding, 300-foot skidpad, g

GTO: 0.88
STi: 0.92

Lane change, mph

GTO: 62.9
STi: 65.9

Thats not a significant difference, and certainly wouldn't be noticeable in everyday driving. You would need to be on a road course in order to see the few tenths difference in times, not on your daily drive to work.

You must be kidding, you are insulting the Mustang 5.0 by making a statement like that. I've heard plenty of WRX's and STi's, and they don't even come remotely close to sounding like a V8, especially not something like a Mustang or F-body. The STi sounds very similar to the Evo, meaning it sounds like an large, low restriction 4 cylinder. ts physically impossible to make a 4 cylinder sound like a V8, due to the difference in displacement, firing order, and numbers of cylinders.

Wait, and what do you drive?? An STi, and you are on a Chevolet site?? What the hell do you expect, people on this site are here because they eithier own or are interested in Cobalts, which are American cars. Get a clue

 

EVO Warranty Issues
We're not talking EVO, and I seriously doubt those rumors are true. Show me hard evidence or else I raise the BS flag. I hear stuff like this all the time, and it's rarely true.

STI V GTO Figures
Where are these figures from, and were they done at the same time under the same conditions. Numbers are not cut and paste, the conditions need to be equivilant to be relevant.

Inside Line thinks the differences are signifigant enough to pick the STI over the GTO see the article here:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=105773

They even have a video so that you don't have to read. I'm sure you'll dismiss this article, perhaps Edmunds is biased against American cars too.

Quotes:

"Compared to the STI the GTO feels like its driving on flat tires."

"It [STI] held its own on the drag strip and flat-out smoked the GTO through the slalom."

BIAS
The funny thing about people on this site is that most of them are pretty reasonable. It's you and a few others who are insane when it comes to these things. I have no bias against American cars, but I'm about getting the best bang for the buck, and for the dollar nothing American even touches the STI. When/IF America ever gets a car as well rounded as the STI, I'll be the first one in line to buy it.

 

Stick to one car. We are talking about the STI not the EVO. Subaru's warranty >>>> GM's Lemons. The GTO is not faster. They are a driver's race in the quarter and the STI is FASTER in everything else. There is no such thing as "roll racing", only ricers or slow FWD cars that don't put money into hooking race from a roll. And like pkskull said, "stop stating your opinions". Nobody values them in the least bit. I prefer the STI's interior over the GTO's, I also think Imprezas look better then Grand Prixs.



You have no clue what you are talking about. The difference between .92 and .88 on the skidpad and 62.9 and 65.9 in lane change mph is huge and very noticable.



He said a modded STi. And because of the flat 4 and 2.5l STIs do have a very throaty sound, nothing like an EVO and in some instances could be compared to a stock 5.0.


Oh wait, you drive a rental car and you are on a COBALT site. Do not try to change this to a Chevy site just to benefit you. This site is for people that like the Cobalt and want to learn about it. Pkskull and I would not be here if we were not interested in the Cobalt. How many sites are you going to get chased off driving your stolen Hertz car?? Come on dude, I am 20 and all 3(yes 3) cars that I have owned and bought myself are better then a Cavalier. And you are how old? All you do is troll on Cobalt sites dreaming of owning a used base Cobalt once you can steal it from the local Hertz. Get a LIFE!

Lock thread, I am done with this clown... his dad should have pulled out sooner.

 

No, roll racing is for people who actually want to see what car is faster. Not for idiots like yourself who claim an automatic win against every car in history based on the fact that you can launch your car hard off the line. I don't care what you think, your STi is still an ugly 4 door econo box on wheels with a massive airplane wing and a front end from an Edsel. A Grand Prix looks like a freaking work of art next to that abomination known as the new WRX.

No, it can't. Maybe in your little import ricer world 4-cylinders sound as good as V8's, but here in the real world, we just laugh at morons like yourself who make ignorant comments like that. A whole 2.5 liters?? Well goddamn, you got yourself a monster of an engine there, a whole half of a 5.0

Wow, your 20 years old. I'm impressed now, especially considering you drive a factory rice 4-door family sedan. Go troll and STI site you tool. I suppose it takes a real man to make fun of somebodys car that they never said was good in the first place, or perhaps just some import retard with no ***** and a wise ass mouth on the internet. I guarentee that you wouldn't say **** to my face in person, because I'd knock you the **** out if I ever saw your goon ass in public. You'd be easily distinguished as the little ricebody with the sideways hat bumpin rap music as you cruise through the streets with one hand on the wheel, and all slouched down in your seat, in your precious STi. Why don't you go drive under a semi like they do in your favorite movie, the Fast and the Furious

You are a piece of trash, we can't even have a discussion on here without some moron like you coming in and saying something stupid like that. Way to be an immature little ******. Go back to trolling your STi forums, you and pkskull are the biggest import fanboys on this site. You aren't hear because you like Cobalts, you are here to troll about imports. Get a life.

 

I don't beat every car in history, I actually lose a lot of races to very fast cars that can HOOK better then me. Once again your opinion on looks, but your opinion is VERY skewed considering what you drive. Do me a favor go to your local track(or closest one) when it opens and ask the 9, 10, and 11 second cars what they prefer, a race from a dig or roll? Then go ask the slow 14-16 second cars, which they prefer?
You have never even sat in either, so how would you know? I don't even think your mom let's you leave the house.
Yep rice that will be faster then everything you ever own!
UH OH! I must have struck a sore note with that comment. Did mom and dad just tell you that you were an accident or something? You are the biggest idiot on this site. At least pkskull and me know what we are talking about. We respect foreign and domestic, while you only respect domestic. So tell me which of us is more intelligent or open minded, you or us???

 

Only an STi/Evo driver would say that roll racing "doesn't exist" and is "stupid". Just because you suck at it and get walked by stock SRT-4's from a roll doesn't make it stupid, it just makes your car shitty from anything other than a dead stop. Get over it, you get wasted by cars costing $10K less from a roll.

How would you know what I've sat in or driven?? Thats right, you don't, so your just guessing like a moron. I've driven and ridden in plenty of WRX's, STi's, and Mustangs, and I can say first hand that an STi sounds like **** compared to a Mustang 4.6 or F-body LS1.

Buddy you've stepped way, way over the line. Maybe you didn't bother to read the forum rules, but you've violated just about every one of them. Funny how the little kid with an STi that mommy and daddy bought him is calling other people idiots, I guess when you don't know jack **** and can't back anything up,resorting to name calling is your next best option. Do the right thing and just leave, import worshipping little bitches are not welcome here.

 

Both of you guys need to relax! You both are on the way to getting this thread locked. Soon the modoraters are going to stop locking threads and start banning users!

 

How many national roll racing events have you been to, total in your life? Exactly, shut up.


Who compared the STI to a Mustang 4.6 or LS1??? Wow, reading comprehension > you.


You insult mine and everyone else's intelligence everytime you post here. And read the forum rules, it says no insults, which I have several posts of you insulting people besides me. You should just end yourself, you future 40-year-old virgin driving a Cavalier. I bought my 280z, I bought my Focus SVT, and I bought my STI. Not my parents. Maybe if you got out of your parent's basement and whiped the cheesy poofs off your hands and face you could get a job that pays more then holding the pizza sign on the street corner.

 

SRT-4

I've never seen a stock STI lose a role race to a stock SRT-4. I've seen stage 2 SRT-4's walk a stock STI, but not as badly as you would think. I don't know where your getting your information from, but heck if it doesn't exist I'm sure you'll have no problem making it up.


Exaust Sound

I spent about 3 seconds looking and found this video, of an STI with a turbo back exaust. I'm not sure which one it is, and I'll be honest and say I've heard better, but under no circumstance can you honestly say that it doesn't sound good. I've heard louder V-8's but the rumble of the boxer is fantastic.

http://videos.streetfire.net/categor...28D5491ABF.htm

2.5 v 5.0

The little 2.5 of the STI makes a heck of a lot more horsepower than that 5.0 Stangs did. Displacement is nice, but it's not the end all be all of things.

Looks

Can you please stop touching on the looks thing, it's starting to sound silly. Everyone on this site knows you don't like how the Impreza looks. Unfortunately no one really cares, its your opinion you've expressed it, now lets stick to the facts.

GTO v STI

What no comments about this comparision now that you've had a chance to look at the facts. Be a man and admit you were wrong.

 

Looks like the GTO is history, guess because it was such a fantastic car, and of course so much better than the STI. I don't care what GM says, this is about sales and not airbags.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/21/g...e-pontiac-gto/

 

This thread is dead ever since the 2 W's exitted themsevles!

 

Agreed! Sometimes the best threads are those where a bunch of people are just going at it.

 

I didn't leave, they just banned both the trolls (Wasey13 and 2s0t0i6), hopefuly for good. Apparently I got a temp ban for being involved in the arguement, whatever. Notice they are both STi owners, and there were no issues until they came in and started making ridiculous claims about how awesome their cars and imports are in general. Hope to never have to see either of them again.

I know that, but theres also a 10+ year gap between the early 90's Mustang 5.0 and the new Subaru 2.5 Turbo. Engines and technology change a great deal in 10 years, so its really comparing apples to oranges.

To use your own words, "Unfortunately no one really cares, its your opinion you've expressed it, now lets stick to the facts". I don't agree at all, but sound is subjective I suppose, so whatever.

I'd admit if I was wrong, but I'm not going to do so unless you can prove to me that I was. I stated the facts and included my opinion, if you don't feel the same way, then thats fine, but don't say I was "wrong" unless you can prove me wrong with hard facts, which of course you can't.

 

You said the difference in handling between an STI and GTO was not significant, the fact is that the difference is significant, therefore your wrong.

Care to comment on the GTO being nixed after two years? I suppose it's going for the same reason the F-Bodies did, becuase the car was just so fantastic that GM couldn't possibly keep selling them.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/21/g...e-pontiac-gto/

You stated that the STI sounded like a typical riced out 4 banger, I stated that it doesn't. The unequal header lengths of the boxer engine give it a very deep rumble sound, completely different from any other 4 cylinder. After listing to the video do you agree that the STI does not sound like a typical 4 banger?

True, but the new Mustang engine isn't any more powerful than the STI's, despite over 2.0 liters of extra displacement.

 

I said that the difference in handling would not be noticeable in normal everyday driving, which is true. You would need to take the car on a road course to really notice the difference in at-the-limit handling between the two cars.

The GTO was never meant to be a long-term seller. Hence the reason they based it off the existing Holden Monaro. It was never meant to be a replacement for the F-Body by any means.

It may not sound like a "typical" 4 cylinder, but its still unmistakably a 4 banger and nothing more. It basically sounds like a typical riced out 4 cylinder with a deeper tone. Nothing compared to a V6 or V8.

Its not that cut-and-dry. Both engines makes 300HP in completely different ways, with the Mustang being the more preferable/traditional method. Take one look at the power curves and the differences become obvious, the Mustang has a much flatter torque curve and more linear powerband. The STi has a ton of turbo lag in the low end, and it only makes full power and torque after the turbo spools halfway through the rev range. The Mustang just has a much more useable powerband in general.

 

I disagree with your assesment that the differences would only be noticable at the edege of the performance envelopes. In any case these are sports cars, and people buy them to push the envelope, therefore the difference is very much releveant, and to ignore it would be silly. Edmunds felt the difference was so signifigant that they said "the GTO felt that it was running on flat tires." Thats a pretty strong statement. If you still think the GTO is better or as good as the STI, than your just saying it for the sake of argument.

As for the limitied production of the GTO. Well if GM inteneded to only keep the car around for a couple of years, they never inteded for it not to sell. The car was a complete and utter failure, no one liked it. Once again GM failed to respond to the marketplace, and as a result, lost a ton of cash. Consumers realized that for the price you could get a better all around car. People who would have bought the GTO, bought the STI or EVO instead.

Pontiac is defenintly one step away from being nixed. If the Solstice doesn't revive the company, which I doubt it will, they will be going the way of Oldsmobile.

 

The GTO definitely wasn't "a complete and utter failure". It may not have sold as well as GM liked, but it was still a successful vehicle. Its main flaw was its subtle styling, which people didn't think looked aggressive enough for a muscle car. I seriously doubt GM lost "a ton of cash", I mean the GTO is just a Monaro with a different grille and lights, its not like they spend millions developing the styling/design of the car. Both engines were pre-existing as well, with the LS1 coming from the Camaro and the LS2 coming from the Corvette. So if anything GM still should have made money, not lost money, on the GTO.

I also doubt that many people considered the GTO and then bought an STi or Evo instead, they are completely different cars. Not only does the GTO have a 100+HP advantage over both cars, but it looks much nicer (IMO, 4 -doors with huge wings are ugly), it has a much higher quality interior, it sounds infinitely better, and it handles almost as well. I think the people who buy STis/Evos are in a different demographic then the buyers of cars like the GTO.

 

Although the profit loss numbers aren't readily available, the fact that Pontiac doesn't have a replacement for the GTO, or another car that is selling, speaks volumes about how far in the red GTO was. With the state of Pontiac and GM in general, if the car was making any money, or was mildly popular they would have made the adjustments necessary to bring it to spec. In other words, if people where buying it, they would have kept it around, because it would bring people into the show room.

The fact that GM took one of its trump cards and went half-a** on it is a shame. The cars history, and loyal following was going to bring it instant attention, and they knew this. Dealers were gouging the heck out of the car when it was released, and after people got ripped off, they were disappointed by the performance.

I strongly disagree with you on the demographics not being shared between these cars. The GTO, STI and EVO are 30,000 dollar sports cars. Although their styling is different they are both targeted at the same crowd.

Are some people die hard American, and others Die Hard Japanese, absolutely. It's the crowd in the middle everyone is shooting for, because you've already got your “die hards” on board. When people were torn, they went with the EVO and STI. Why? They are better sports cars, 50 or 100 hp aside.

I was one of a middle of the roaders, I really wanted to go American so I could help the economy, but I was not willing to sacrifice performance and reliability for patriotism. I have driven all three cars, and trust me when I say you can feel a difference. The balance of the EVO and STI is far better. The GTO, pushed you back in your seat, but the car felt heavy, and that’s because it was. Nice interiors are cool for about a week, after that its all about the performace, and despite the HP advantage both the STI and EVO are much better performers.

If you would step outside your bias and look at the facts you would agree with me. Go on the web and try to find an unbiased opinion that will state that the GTO is a better car. Good luck, your not going to find one.