csementuh

iTrader: (18)

I have the BRFPS system installed as per the option 2 specs. I have the reg unit installed in the rear, and I dropped the tank to disable the stock regulator.

Problem is, the regulator does not seem to be doing it's job, as now the car constantly outputs 100+psi fuel pressure and pegs my fuel pressure tester gauge.

Problem #1

I've tried to take the fuel pressure at both shrader fittings, on the reg and on the rail. Before I had it connected at the reg in the rear. I can get the gauge to go to 58psi when I adjust the regulator (like I need) when I turn the key on or use HPT to switch the fuel pump on. This is a reading with the vac line on or off, as the car is not running. However once the car starts the gauges shoots to 90-100+psi whether the vac line is hooked up or not. Do you set the base psi with the car on or off? I'd think it would be the same either way as long as the vac line is off?

Problem #2

When the pump is turned on for the initial 'prime' the gauge jumps up and down a bunch and then settles at 58psi. It sounds like there is air in the lines or something, and it makes a gurgling sound of some sort, sorta like when there is air in the intercooler system and the IC pump is struggling to suck fluid. Don't know if that has something to do with the problem? The fuel pump almost sounds like it is struggling to pump as the pressure is so high, and the pump whines a little louder than normal.

The install is quite simple except for dropping the tank, which was a PITA with my 3" exhaust in the way, so I don't know how the install could have gotten botched... The fitting only fit on the right way as the filter inlets are different sizes. I have consulted all of the ZZP pictures and literature, and my install matches perfectly.

Trying to run the car this way shows a HPT scan with 32+ STFT's with the car running now, so I tried setting my MAF scale down 30% thinking it was just getting way too much fuel at idle. That made the car idle really erratically, and when I lowered the MAF fueling even more, the car sputtered out and wouldn't even idle. At that point my wideband was basically pegged full lean, like it was cutting out too much fuel completely. The car will run with my regular base tune (with adjusted fuel injector settings for the 'return style' tune as per the HPT tutorials) that was running on the car perfectly fine before.

Now I am at a loss as to whether it is a weird tuning issue, or a mechanical problem. The weird noises make me think mechanical.

I know ZZP will be closed Monday for the holiday, and I really need to get this fixed ASAP, as I'd prefer not to wait until Tues to get a new reg unit shipped out and receive it. I don't want to go back to stock as I like this kit, and I want the benefits such as better idle and more fuel headroom for E85 in the future.

Help please!

Matt M

Why did you adjust the regulator? They work great the way we ship them.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

I wanted to run a 58psi base pressure for headroom with e85 on the 80's. The fuel pressure soared wayyy too high even before I touched the regulator as well. That tells me a problem exists either with the regulator or another fuel system component (which ran flawless before the install).

Anything I can do to furth diagnose this issue and hopefully fix it? Have you ever seen the pressure go really high like that? Is there another regulator body I can swap into the until to fix it (since it's an OEM unit I thought maybe I could replace it)? I'm kinda in a pinch now since the car isn't really safe to drive now.

Thanks for the response. =)

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you may not have by passed the OEM regulator properly and fuel isn't returning to the tank freely. that would cause the pressure spike.

Retuning the PCM for fueling after this install shouldn't be done in the MAF table. Use the injector charge and the inj voltage.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Zoomer..

I did properly tune the car by setting the injector settings. I simply tried adjusting the MAF tables as the high fuel pressure was drowning the car with fuel. Since the injector settings are correct, it should have nothing to do with the tune as the fuel pressure is now controlled manually by the boost regulated setup.

The stock regulator was bypassed as per the instructions and pictures on your website. I dropped the tank and removed the canister. I then removed the fuel diverter, took out the spring arm, ball, and ball o ring to disable the stock regulator. I then re-installed the fuel diverter, canister, tank, lines, etc. That should have the system bypassed properly.

Could it be something like a pinched line or something? All of lines to and from the tank appear OK, but at this point anything is possible.

I recall installing the ZZP setup first without dropping the tank (option 1 style), and even then I had trouble with getting the lower fuel pressure. That is when I decided to just jump straight to dropping the tank for option 2.

Someone suggested that maybe the spring was bad in the regulator in the kit? Is there a comprable reg unit I can swap the body out for or something? What else can I do to diagnose this? If a part isn't bad, what possibly could it be? I would really like to get this squared away today.

Thanks!

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Bump for some help!

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Bump!

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Remove the ZZP unit, run just the factory and check fuel pressure. should be close to zero.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Zoomer, what will that prove? A blockage in the stock system? Would it not output a very high pressure as the pump will continue pumping with no regulator to reduce the pressure? I will try this as soon as possible today.

If you would assist me in some troubleshooting or diagnostic steps, I may be able to do some more on my end...

Matt M just PM'ed me back and suggested that I send the ZZP part back in for testing. That is not a feasible solution, nor one that leaves me with any good sense of ZZP customer service. Sending in the ZZP part would disable my vehicle completly until the part is shipped back in, tested, and either the same part or a replacement is returned. That would mean a downtime of 1-2 weeks, which is unaccepable.

I am not the only customer to have an issue with adjusting the regulator. Although for a record, I did have an issue even *before* I adjusted the regulator as well. Is this kit not designed to be a n adjustable unit? I have no doubt that it works well in the option 1 configuration, or in the option 2 configuration with the preset 42psi base pressue, however is the kit not recommended for large injectors needing the additional pressure headroom of an increased base pressure? I have seen it working before at 58psi, so I am unsure as to why my (same) configuration does not work.

What will ZZP do for me to stand behind their product?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

You don't understand how the fuel system works or how the product works exactly. Please just do what we say and report back.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Zooomer, I will go remove the ZZP unit now and report the fuel pressure. Should be able to update this thread within a half hour or so.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

OK ZZP unit removed, so car fuel system is stock with stock regulator removed (modified as per ZZP specs)

With key (pump) on, fuel pressure would surge high then lower to 0 after a few seconds.

Car running, fuel pressure soards to 100+psi as before.

What does this conclude? Thanks!

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

Maybe it would be helpful for you to write up detailed instructions on how to properly setup and configure HPTs for this kit.

I am not sure if your 4 pic gif and instructions on the website are enough.

It seems like everyone who installed one of your kits runs into to some sort of issue that requires additional help to fix.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

So the car runs with our unit disconnected and the fuel pressure is 100+?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

We're going to put a blub on the site to not adjust the regulator if you have a factory pump. That's a big cause of the issue.

Normally we don't give out PCM pgramming advice for mods. We let the forums deal with that.

This thread may be a new issue related to bypassing the factory pump. When we figure it out, we'll discuss ways to prevent customers having the problem again.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Yes, sir. The car still runs, but the fuel pressure is maxed out on my gauge at past 100psi.

Any ideas what could be causing this, or how I can fix my problem?

The car is a mid-late 07' model. Could there be some sort of possible change? I know that the 05's have a different pump that needs the 'disc' added to the regulator, and some of the people have upgraded to the Walbro to get the amount of flow they needed.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

That might be a good warning for others.

The PCM tuning isn't really that big of a deal once you understand what injector values need changed. From there a simple retune of the MAF/VE, and everything should be in check.

Matt M

As I stated in my emails- I was nearly certain that the regulator is not bad. Asking us to stand behind our product that is not faulty doesn't really make sense. Now that you have removed our regulator and found that your fuel pressure is still going over 100, it has been ruled out that our regulator is causing the blockage. The next step is to figure out what is keeping your fuel from returning to the tank. Something is blocking it. There is either a kinked hose, contaminates in the line, or an improper modification in the return system keeping fuel from returning to the tank.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

As Matt stated, there is nothing wrong with the product we sold you. the problem is in the install. I would guess in the canister. You modified the canister wrong.

A fuel pressure regulator does not lower fuel pressure as you've implied. Fuel pumps do not put out any pressure, they simply flow fuel. A regulator creates pressure by restricting how much fuel returns to the tank. The less you return, the higher the pressure. In your case, none is getting back to the tank.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Matt and Zoomer, thank you for giving me a more concise reply. Asking you to stand behind your products means that in the physical sense of the unit, as well as the instructions, information, and customer service you give on the product.

Thanks for the more clear explanation of the regulator. I mis-worded my reply before, as I know that a regulator restricts flow in functioning. I did not know how to explain the excessive pressure I was seeing however.

Now that we have established that there is likely an issue with my fuel system, how can I go about further diagnosing this problem? The only thing I have done on the car is remove the ball and spring from the factory regulator at this point as the ZZP unit is off the car.

The first thing I should check is the return line going back to the canister attached to the stock regulator in the canister, and the ZZP unit, correct? The light blue connector on the front of the filter? That line is likely kinked or otherwise obstructed?

When I get home from work I will drop the tank again and pull out the canister to check for problems. Once I find the problem or verify operation, I will hook everything back up with the tank sitting below the car, and verify the system is working, before bolting everything back together.

Should the fuel system with stock regulator disabled, show 0psi at the rail because the fuel is freely circulating back to the tank without a regulator to restrict it and raise pressure?

If my problem is fixed should I see 0psi both at key on, and engine running?

Thanks!

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

But increasing the voltage to the fuel pump can increase flow. Correct?

Do you recommend that people run your BRFPS with your Fuel Pump rewire kit?

Matt M

Yes, the pressure should be close to 0 with the factory regulator removed and without our regulator installed. The car will most likely not start, but you should be able to turn the key on to prime the pump and verify that the fuel can return to the tank without restriction.

WSFrazier

Lol, I make one thread about my ZZP regulator "possibly being bad" and now I have 4 people sending me PM's telling me they think theirs is bad now.

What's funny is it turns out both my regulators were fine, my pump was terrible. (BTW Zooomer, you should be expecting that regulator you sent me coming back to you this week).

IMO, this problem sounds like you have something pinched in the canister. Return line maybe.

Off topic, I still think my car is not getting all the fuel pressure it should be at redline, there is no way I should be at high 90's IDC @ 7k with a 58psi base pressure. 80ish-psi should be more than enough fuel pressure for my setup, and I am just barely getting by.

Not that I really care, cause like I said, the car gets the fuel it needs and is fine, but just barely. Not blaming ZZP, I just don't think these GM OEM regulators can handle it.

Obviously this is all hearsay until I can get a real fuel pressure gauge in the car and output it to HPTuners and log pressure as I drive. I could be completely wrong and my car just could really be using that much fuel.

I still say for the money, the ZZP kit is very much worth it. All fueling issues I had were so far, were my problems and nothing to do with ZZP.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for the input Wes.

I'm dropping the tank now, so I'll see how things look in the canister... I'm reallllllly hoping that fixes it up.

csementuh

iTrader: (18)

OK, now I'm starting to get irritated...

With ZZP kit removed, and stock regulator bypassed... At key on, fuel pressure reads 0. Yet car will still idle and it reads 100psi.... How is that!!!???

The car also makes the gurgling sound without the ZZP piece installed.

The fuel filter has about 2k on it, nothing else is modified.

There are no restrictions in the return line, I was able to blow through the line and feel the air come out the other side no problems.

Help! Please!