Well I'm lookin for a new car. And a couple local Chevy dealers are having some pretty good sales, so I was looking at an 07 Cobalt. I have a few questions though about the trim levels.

I enjoy driving fast, and ideally I would want the 2.4 SS, but I don't know if I can justify the cost right now. What are the differences between the 2.2 and the 2.4 engine? Is it just a longer stroke?

If I went with the 2.2 would it be a nice tuner engine? I enjoy working on cars, and would probably look into a turbo kit once I paid the car off, but would it be worth it to put the money into the 2.2 engine?

Autotrader lists both the LS and SS getting the same gas mileage both city and highway. Is this true based on anyone's personal experience? If it is why wouldn't the 2.2 get better gas mileage?

Also are there any differences other than the engine from the LS to SS? Like differential, gear ratio, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

 

2.2 is rated at 145 HP
2.4 is rated at 173 HP

2.4L engine has Variable Valve Timing that uses Cam Phasing.
2.2L doesn't have VVT

2.2 is 10.0:1 Compression
2.4 is 10.4:1 Compression

All the ECOTEC motors are good engines to build on and share alot of similarities between each other. I had turbo'd a 2.2 in my Sunfire and have seen plenty of others do the same with the 2.2 (L61). I'm not saying right away buy the 2.2 and turbo it but just stating that it's as good of a tuner engine as any other ECOTEC on the market.

FYI: There are now 6 ECOTEC motors in the U.S.

 

That VVT is basically the same as Honda's V-tec right? Giving it the better gas mileage at lower rpms, and opening the valves bigger at higher rpms?

 

Actually No.

VTEC uses a change in camshaft profile by switching cam lobes when hitting a certain RPM.

Cam Phasing changes camshaft timing throught the RPM band.

 

i have owned both... get the SS .... better power and a lot better ride ... and resale is better

 

I had a 2.2 (L61) Cobalt before I bought the SS Supercharged.... all I had was an exhaust and intake and it did respond well to those mods! But the differences don't just stop at the engine bay! The interior of the SS's is better, it has the FE5 suspension, better brakes ie: 4 wheel discs, better body stying for sure! So the 2.4SS is a little more well rounded than the EConobox 2.2 liter version. But it's really what you want to spend, both are good platforms you just get a little headstart with the 2.4SS version!

 

Some say that you could blow a 2.2L or 2.4L engine any second because it wasn't "designed" for boost aka turbo/supercharger/NOS but don't listen to them because they all have a #4 cyclinder knocking just like the rest of us. The 2.2L engine is a strong engine and I still have one going strong in a Sunfire with 160,000 miles on it.

 

There isn't a single engine in GM's lineup "designed" for boost except for the LSJ.... It's all in the tuning and setup, you can make anything run boost!

Minus the SAAB's and the SKY and Solstice.... kinda' forgot those!

 

Just to add to this...

Just because it didn't come with forced induction doesn't mean it can't handle any type of forced induction. Even stock forced inducted vehicles have their limitations as far as engine stress. I know what you're trying to say though, I think just the word "designed" can be sort of misleading.

And you're right, the LSJ LK9 and LNF all come with forced induction.

They aren't knocking because of a engine flaw though but you are right, 2.2L is a reliable motor just like all the ECOTEC motors.

 

what do you guys mean exactly when you say "designed for boost"? if you look at the #'s the 2.2 can handle about double the whp before major upgrades need to be done.

 

Major differences:

2.4L: Intake 1-piece plastic casting, 68MM Throttle Body, redesigned cylinder head to accomodate VVT, Computer tuneable for modifications (still in infancy) -- example: camshaft changes, 3.91:1 differential (auto). 4-wheel disc brakes, 5 lug wheels.

2.2L: Intake smaller 2-piece casting glued together, 60MM Throttle Body, Computer not tuneable for modifications -- example: bolt on larger 68MM TB and limp mode is set - can't drive car, 3.63:1 differential (auto). Front disc - rear drum, 4 lug wheels.

 

are they both open differentials? Do they make an LSD for them?

 

No LSD

 

Dude, are you absolutely sure the throttle body is 68 MM or even that the 2.2 is 60 MM? From my understanding the L61s throttle body size didn't change from the J-bodies and theirs was 58 MM. 68 MM is huge....

What do you mean by "accomodate VVT"?

And what do you mean "camshaft changes"?

To clarify, no LSD from factory.

The only ones that had LSD from factory was the G85 package on the SS/SC which they stopped making.

 

I'm holding a 2.2 TB and a 2.4 TB in my hands now. measuring across the opening of the 2.2 it is 60 MM (almost 2 3/8"). The 2.4 TB opening measurement is actually 67 MM almost 2 9/16"). I have no idea what they are rated at that's the measurement at the opening.

The 2.4 head is a different casting altogether -- not anything like the 2.2 head. It is larger at the front because the camshaft's cam adjusters are positioned on the ends of the cams -- these will not fit in a 2.2 head. The 2.4 valve cover is redesigned as well and won't fit on the 2.2.

You can't alter the airflow characteristics of the 2.2 without having the engine go into limp mode -- been there done that. You can't change the airflow diagnostics of the e16 computer so that the computer will accept more airflow without getting the dreaded limp mode. Althought the tuning is just starting for the 2.4 (infancy) the potential exists for changing the airflow diagnostics so that you can mod without a piggyback. Piggybacks are complicated and not easily understood by the average mechanic - like me.

 

That doesn't make much sense to me since the 2.2 is MAF based. If you made a camshaft change, it should be able to accomodate even moderately for airflow changes.

Everything else you said, I was just trying to understand what you meant. No beef or anything. Thanks.

 

I think it is all based on the fact that the TB is electronically controlled -- if the TB shaft were to break and the throttle goes to wide open GM put in safegaurds -- the computer senses too much airflow for the throttle position and it goes into limp mode to keep you from "flying" uncontrollably down the highway. Remember, we tried installing the larger 2.4 TB on my 2.2 with no luck -- kept getting a P0068 and "limping".

 

Oh wait...

When you said "airflow changes" you were talking about putting the 2.4 TB on the 2.2 Manifold/Vehicle?

That might have to do then with what you stated then. I was thinking about changing airflow changes like the camshafts.

 

Sadly, if you were to install a camshaft with larger lift and duration specs you will get the same limp mode because of the change in airflow. I suspect this is why Comp cams states that the stage 3 cams are not computer friendly....Part of the reflash the 2.0 SCs get when installing the stage upgrades is to allow the computer to accept increases in airflow due to the smaller pulley diameters.

 

Honestly, I don't believe that you would go into limp mode because of a camshaft change. If you had a mild camshaft change on a MAF based vehicle, it should run just fine. Even on my old sunfire with a Alpha-N system, no limp mode but I did lose power because the car ran overly rich because of the manifold pressure change.

 

NJHK: I just got back from the Lattof show so I'm a little late in answering your MAF based info.

The Cobalt's computer calculates airflow Vs Throttle position (Part of the Airflow diagnostics). If the intake airflow is outside of the preset "calculations" this will put the engine in Limp mode -- it is part of the safeguards built-in to protect the occupants from a run-away car in the event the incoming airflow would make the engine "take off" due to a leak, cracked intake, broken throttle, faulty wiring, gremlin, etc.

Anything that allows more air into the engine, without telling the computer it's ok, will affect the airflow/throttle position diagnostics. There is, no doubt, a built in parameter that allows for some variation -- which is allowing us to install the intake and exhaust bolt-ons -- but once those parameters are exceeded then it's a no-go.

 

get a 2.0

 

No!