Anyone Roadrace cobalts
05-21-2010, 01:43 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-13-10
Location: Des Moines, Iowa200
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone Roadrace cobalts
I just bought a new 09 cobalt ss and want to roadrace it. Holding off on the stage one kit till i know more about the tune.
Looking for input from anyone who roadraces, not auto cross but roadraces.......
Dan
Looking for input from anyone who roadraces, not auto cross but roadraces.......
Dan
05-21-2010, 02:58 PM
#5
What class are you TT in? The Cobalt SS/TC is horribly classed for Nasa TT. The FI penalty doesn't help either.
And re: questions, ask away. Someone around here is caging a Cobalt SS/TC at Mitch Piper's shop, so it's a full blown race car. For me, I just plan on going out to instruct in it, and play around on tracks when I get a chance.
Stock, it's a pretty well balanced car, for a FWD car. It's even better when you put on a tree trunk sized rear sway bar, which you can get from OTTP.
And re: questions, ask away. Someone around here is caging a Cobalt SS/TC at Mitch Piper's shop, so it's a full blown race car. For me, I just plan on going out to instruct in it, and play around on tracks when I get a chance.
Stock, it's a pretty well balanced car, for a FWD car. It's even better when you put on a tree trunk sized rear sway bar, which you can get from OTTP.
Last edited by Wangspeed; 05-21-2010 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-21-2010, 03:33 PM
#6
New Member
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What class are you TT in? The Cobalt SS/TC is horribly classed for Nasa TT. The FI penalty doesn't help either.
And re: questions, ask away. Someone around here is caging a Cobalt SS/TC at Mitch Piper's shop, so it's a full blown race car. For me, I just plan on going out to instruct in it, and play around on tracks when I get a chance.
Stock, it's a pretty well balanced car, for a FWD car. It's even better when you put on a tree trunk sized rear sway bar, which you can get from OTTP.
And re: questions, ask away. Someone around here is caging a Cobalt SS/TC at Mitch Piper's shop, so it's a full blown race car. For me, I just plan on going out to instruct in it, and play around on tracks when I get a chance.
Stock, it's a pretty well balanced car, for a FWD car. It's even better when you put on a tree trunk sized rear sway bar, which you can get from OTTP.
You really think it's horribly classed? If I recall I think it's classed with S2ks, E46 M3s, and such, but STi's and Evo's are up one class (TTB)
Honestly, I like the challenge of it. The first NASA TT I should be attending is at Blackhawk Farms raceway in June. I have a buddy that should also be there with his S2000CR.
I'm doing my mods step by step though, I wanted to do the OTTP sway bar but i'm going to give the car a chance to see how it feels with much better tires and go from there.
05-21-2010, 04:04 PM
#7
IIRC, you really only have 12 points to play with (7 gone due to penalty), because 20 puts you into TTB. That rules out any tuning whatsoever, including the GMS1. If it didn't have the 7 point penalty, or started off one class down, I think it'd be in a lot better shape. Cie la vie. Non-homogeneous series usually boils down to starting off with the right car, according to the class system.
05-21-2010, 05:13 PM
#9
New Member
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IIRC, you really only have 12 points to play with (7 gone due to penalty), because 20 puts you into TTB. That rules out any tuning whatsoever, including the GMS1. If it didn't have the 7 point penalty, or started off one class down, I think it'd be in a lot better shape. Cie la vie. Non-homogeneous series usually boils down to starting off with the right car, according to the class system.
and taken weight to power ratio for TTC is 12 and TTB is 10.25, so we have alot of room to play with cause driver weight is added to the equation. I'll be right around 10.73 without my weight in the ratio since I dynoed at 278whp.
Last edited by mron0903; 05-21-2010 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-21-2010, 08:51 PM
#10
reflashes don't deduct points as long as the stock ecu is still used. the only thing we have to worry about is power to weight ratio points. IIRC I thought they allow 21 points for upgrades before bumping into the next class.
and taken weight to power ratio for TTC is 12 and TTB is 10.25, so we have alot of room to play with cause driver weight is added to the equation. I'll be right around 10.73 without my weight in the ratio since I dynoed at 278whp.
and taken weight to power ratio for TTC is 12 and TTB is 10.25, so we have alot of room to play with cause driver weight is added to the equation. I'll be right around 10.73 without my weight in the ratio since I dynoed at 278whp.
I thought reflashes counted too, but I guess not, now that I look at the rules again. Still an uphill battle though. I looked at the lap records for TTC, and they're basically at the pace that my race car was, only I wouldn't have a cage in my Cobalt. I'd want real safety gear at that pace.
I agree, it should be possible to put together a fun Cobalt setup and stay in TTC. The pace for Mid-Atlantic TTC is very fast though. 2:13 @ VIR, and 1:24 at Summit are fast, and I would assume they're probably dedicated TT/race cars at that pace.
05-22-2010, 12:09 AM
#14
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-13-10
Location: Des Moines, Iowa200
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want to run it at "open" track events, so nothing competative. I want to take the car out with tires ,hawk pads and different rotors. Track time is usually twenty minutes of hard driving so that is why i am concerned about what type of tune to use. I am concerned with it overheating running it that hard for that long.
Dan
Dan
05-22-2010, 12:43 AM
#15
I want to run it at "open" track events, so nothing competative. I want to take the car out with tires ,hawk pads and different rotors. Track time is usually twenty minutes of hard driving so that is why i am concerned about what type of tune to use. I am concerned with it overheating running it that hard for that long.
Dan
Dan
Depending on how fast you're driving on track, the stock pads may suffice. They're pretty good Ferrodos. The stock rotors are also good. Don't listen to the bunk. There's no need to replace them. Hell, send me your stock rotors if you "upgrade". I did swap to Cobalt Friction XR1 for the front pads just for the event. Anything less than Hawk DTC 60 will be a downgrade. I also ran with an OTTP hardcore rear bar.
I'm looking forward to getting back out on track with the Pedders and control arm bushings. I have a pretty full schedule this spring though, so I probably won't be back out til July. The car's very predictable, and will understeer on throttle (yes, even with the hardcore bar and r compounds), but slides predictably while trail braking or on lift-throttle. It's quite easy to drive at 9/10ths. Lots of folks wonder what the car is, so it's great fun to surprise folks.
Have fun, and be safe.
05-22-2010, 02:20 AM
#17
You're on your own to tune the car for the track, or you'll have to be extremely specific with your tuner. I would not run over 22 psi, and I'd want to know what sort of EGTs it runs in fifth gear. You'll have to log knock on track too. No mucking with timing under 2500 rpm. A/f somewhere between 13 and 13.5, thou the GM tune tends to run around 14+ unless the cat protection kicks in.
Thing is, even taking those into account, GM took the time to instrument turbo speed measurement so they know how much was safe to request, what waste gate ramp ups, etc. I trust that their tune is reliable. They have to pay if they mess up. Til another tuner comes along and starts logging day after day at tracks, i'll stick with the gms1.
Thing is, even taking those into account, GM took the time to instrument turbo speed measurement so they know how much was safe to request, what waste gate ramp ups, etc. I trust that their tune is reliable. They have to pay if they mess up. Til another tuner comes along and starts logging day after day at tracks, i'll stick with the gms1.
05-22-2010, 05:31 AM
#18
New Member
Join Date: 09-15-09
Location: Chi-Town
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're on your own to tune the car for the track, or you'll have to be extremely specific with your tuner. I would not run over 22 psi, and I'd want to know what sort of EGTs it runs in fifth gear. You'll have to log knock on track too. No mucking with timing under 2500 rpm. A/f somewhere between 13 and 13.5, thou the GM tune tends to run around 14+ unless the cat protection kicks in.
Thing is, even taking those into account, GM took the time to instrument turbo speed measurement so they know how much was safe to request, what waste gate ramp ups, etc. I trust that their tune is reliable. They have to pay if they mess up. Til another tuner comes along and starts logging day after day at tracks, i'll stick with the gms1.
Thing is, even taking those into account, GM took the time to instrument turbo speed measurement so they know how much was safe to request, what waste gate ramp ups, etc. I trust that their tune is reliable. They have to pay if they mess up. Til another tuner comes along and starts logging day after day at tracks, i'll stick with the gms1.
"20 thru 39 points - Up ONE Class"
I thought reflashes counted too, but I guess not, now that I look at the rules again. Still an uphill battle though. I looked at the lap records for TTC, and they're basically at the pace that my race car was, only I wouldn't have a cage in my Cobalt. I'd want real safety gear at that pace.
I agree, it should be possible to put together a fun Cobalt setup and stay in TTC. The pace for Mid-Atlantic TTC is very fast though. 2:13 @ VIR, and 1:24 at Summit are fast, and I would assume they're probably dedicated TT/race cars at that pace.
I thought reflashes counted too, but I guess not, now that I look at the rules again. Still an uphill battle though. I looked at the lap records for TTC, and they're basically at the pace that my race car was, only I wouldn't have a cage in my Cobalt. I'd want real safety gear at that pace.
I agree, it should be possible to put together a fun Cobalt setup and stay in TTC. The pace for Mid-Atlantic TTC is very fast though. 2:13 @ VIR, and 1:24 at Summit are fast, and I would assume they're probably dedicated TT/race cars at that pace.
I can't wait to get back on track though, damn weather here has been so finiky
Last edited by mron0903; 05-22-2010 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-22-2010, 11:01 AM
#19
Junior Member
Join Date: 11-21-08
Location: Ontario
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want to run it at "open" track events, so nothing competative. I want to take the car out with tires ,hawk pads and different rotors. Track time is usually twenty minutes of hard driving so that is why i am concerned about what type of tune to use. I am concerned with it overheating running it that hard for that long.
Dan
Dan
Coolant temps went from 210 max last year (stock tune) to around 225/228F running on the GMS1 last night. I was more aggressive than usual though - my Viper buddy got a brake and tire upgrade, plus there was an Acura NSX on Direzza Z1's that gave me a good run for my money.
I think I found her limit, one time coming of the track I think I could smell the cats or something. Now I am looking for a DP with a cat that can handle the extreme temps.
05-22-2010, 11:18 AM
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: 11-21-08
Location: Ontario
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, checked the oil this morning and it will need to be replaced. Definitely smelled like it got really HOT and there is an aroma of unburned gas...
05-22-2010, 01:31 PM
#23
Most cars that get tracked run over 300F oil temp, unless you have a dedicated air cooled oil cooler, like a Setrab or Mocal, etc. I just change it after an event, and stick with good 5W-30. My preference is German Castrol 0W-30, since it's more like a 40W, but for warranty purposes, I stick with Pennzoil Plat, and will be going to Pennzoil Ultra soon.
I like that our car comes with baffled oil pans. One less thing I have to do.
I like that our car comes with baffled oil pans. One less thing I have to do.
05-22-2010, 01:49 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-12-09
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, it does eh? Veddy nice! Guess I will stick with 5W30 and change it more often when i begin tracking. If you have HPT (maybe even dashhawk) you can log your oil temps. Would be fairly interesting to see how hot they really do get.
05-22-2010, 02:29 PM
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: 11-21-08
Location: Ontario
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts