Story of a ZZP Engine Swap
02-09-2012, 01:54 PM
#26
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Like the ZZP with a BNR thread, I'd be more comfortable talking about that via PMs. I did get a nice Black Friday discount though, so that was a huge help in making this happen.
It wasn't much. It was mainly free shipping on things.
Yeah, he does really good work with everything he does. He takes his time and gets it right, and I respect that. You'd have to ask 07BoostedG5 that question, as he took the parts home to work on. 07BoostedG5 is 88 Fabrication on GMoH.
Right now, I'm going to be breaking it in on the stocker. I'm planning on doing things in 2 phases. This first phase is just the engine. The second phase will probably be an EFR and stronger tranny.
In the meantime, I'm going to really be overworking that poor stock turbo. lol So hopefully the EFR will be available soon. Perhaps this build may bump it up on the ZZP EFR waiting list *cough...ZZP...cough*. lol
Yeah, we tried giving it some love taps with a sledge, but when they weren't budging we decided to go with Plan B in the interest of time and to come back to it.
Me too! It's going to be so hard staying out of it a lot during the break in process. I'm determined to break in the engine and clutch before it touches a dyno though. The reasoning behind this was to basically overbuild it, in order to run higher power reliably, so I don't want to undermine that by jumping the gun.
It wasn't much. It was mainly free shipping on things.
Right now, I'm going to be breaking it in on the stocker. I'm planning on doing things in 2 phases. This first phase is just the engine. The second phase will probably be an EFR and stronger tranny.
In the meantime, I'm going to really be overworking that poor stock turbo. lol So hopefully the EFR will be available soon. Perhaps this build may bump it up on the ZZP EFR waiting list *cough...ZZP...cough*. lol
Me too! It's going to be so hard staying out of it a lot during the break in process. I'm determined to break in the engine and clutch before it touches a dyno though. The reasoning behind this was to basically overbuild it, in order to run higher power reliably, so I don't want to undermine that by jumping the gun.
02-09-2012, 02:01 PM
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
By the way..
I added a note in the original post about the ZZP Clutch. They (or at least mine) don't come with a clutch alignment tool included, so you'll either need to go old school and eye it, or find one. In my case, I dug around and found one. Nobody seems to have them in stock right now though.
We opted against the old school option, since it would involve using a bit of grease to make things easier. Spinning grease slings, and we didn't need grease getting on a clutch disk or something.
I added a note in the original post about the ZZP Clutch. They (or at least mine) don't come with a clutch alignment tool included, so you'll either need to go old school and eye it, or find one. In my case, I dug around and found one. Nobody seems to have them in stock right now though.
We opted against the old school option, since it would involve using a bit of grease to make things easier. Spinning grease slings, and we didn't need grease getting on a clutch disk or something.
02-09-2012, 03:51 PM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes and no. First time was a ring gap issue from the factory. That single piston (Cylinder #1) was replaced though, so this was otherwise the original engine still.
This time was my fault though. I had been pushing it for years and many miles, and the piston finally gave. I had a factory IC blow, Hahn IC blow a weld, the high pressure fuel pump start going, constant evap battles, and then a turbo bearing failure leading up to this where it knocked on a couple occasions while I was back on 93, so I'm wondering if this was basically the straw that broke the camel's back after that. E85 is safer from an anti-knock standpoint, but can put more stress on the engine since you're running more timing. It's a bit of a tradoff.
This time was my fault though. I had been pushing it for years and many miles, and the piston finally gave. I had a factory IC blow, Hahn IC blow a weld, the high pressure fuel pump start going, constant evap battles, and then a turbo bearing failure leading up to this where it knocked on a couple occasions while I was back on 93, so I'm wondering if this was basically the straw that broke the camel's back after that. E85 is safer from an anti-knock standpoint, but can put more stress on the engine since you're running more timing. It's a bit of a tradoff.
02-09-2012, 08:14 PM
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I figured it would be a fun read for some and a helpful resource for others.It did take a while. Some things, like the parts list, were already typed up pretty much, so I just kinda reformatted it a bit. The pictures all needed to be resized though. They were all way too huge after I tried posting them the first time. lol
If it didn't post and I couldn't get back to it, or said that I had magically been signed out at some point while I was typing it up, I admit I probably would've went ape on something. haha
02-09-2012, 08:32 PM
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I've got the silver radio, so I didn't have him do that surrounding trim piece or those long horizontal silver dash pieces. If I had the dark radio and HVAC faceplate cover then it might look okay I guess. The G5 GTs have an interior theme that's a bit like that.
My car is naturally black and silver (car and wheels/headlights), and has a CF wing, so I decided to keep the theme and go black and silver (how the seats, interior, and trim already are), and then add a touch of CF on the inside too, to tie it all together.
02-10-2012, 01:22 PM
#41
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Thanks! Yeah, normally I'd agree, but after seeing some of 07BoostedG5's work I finally got weak after many months and asked him to do those pieces. lol
I've got the silver radio, so I didn't have him do that surrounding trim piece or those long horizontal silver dash pieces. If I had the dark radio and HVAC faceplate cover then it might look okay I guess. The G5 GTs have an interior theme that's a bit like that.
My car is naturally black and silver (car and wheels/headlights), and has a CF wing, so I decided to keep the theme and go black and silver (how the seats, interior, and trim already are), and then add a touch of CF on the inside too, to tie it all together.
I've got the silver radio, so I didn't have him do that surrounding trim piece or those long horizontal silver dash pieces. If I had the dark radio and HVAC faceplate cover then it might look okay I guess. The G5 GTs have an interior theme that's a bit like that.
My car is naturally black and silver (car and wheels/headlights), and has a CF wing, so I decided to keep the theme and go black and silver (how the seats, interior, and trim already are), and then add a touch of CF on the inside too, to tie it all together.
02-10-2012, 02:22 PM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In the meantime, basically just start by envisioning the stock silver trim, charcoal-colored door panels/dash, and black seats. Then I have the trim pieces on each side of the steering wheel and both door pieces wrapped with that CF pattern.
02-10-2012, 03:55 PM
#43
I sure don't. I'll have to take some pics if we get to a stopping point on the engine stuff. Maybe I could do one of those fancy panoramic shots.
In the meantime, basically just start by envisioning the stock silver trim, charcoal-colored door panels/dash, and black seats. Then I have the trim pieces on each side of the steering wheel and both door pieces wrapped with that CF pattern.
In the meantime, basically just start by envisioning the stock silver trim, charcoal-colored door panels/dash, and black seats. Then I have the trim pieces on each side of the steering wheel and both door pieces wrapped with that CF pattern.
For real though, it looks pretty damn good
02-12-2012, 10:45 PM
#46
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Update!
Had some setbacks today, but ended up making some good progress.
Pulled the old engine off of the subframe and separated it from the transmission.
Replaced the clutch slave cylinder / throwout bearing.
Installed Fidanza flywheel and ZZP Stage 4 clutch on new engine. Online specs and build book show 39 ft-lbs / 53 N∙m for the flywheel bolts (with 25° Final Pass), and 21 ft-lbs / 28 N∙m for the clutch bolts. Don't forget some Loctite.
...and then, with the help of Kage, mated the new engine to the tranny.
As it stands as of tonight:
Time to start hooking things back up, priming it, and then adding fluids. We found that a 981mm length accessory belt fits, so I'll edit the original post to include this. The stock was a 1017mm, and was too long. I tried a 1005mm length and a 965mm length, and one was too long still and the other too short. The 981mm belt that we found that worked ended up being a Gates K050385 (5PK981; 5 rib, 981 length) from O'Reillys.
Pulled the old engine off of the subframe and separated it from the transmission.
Replaced the clutch slave cylinder / throwout bearing.
Installed Fidanza flywheel and ZZP Stage 4 clutch on new engine. Online specs and build book show 39 ft-lbs / 53 N∙m for the flywheel bolts (with 25° Final Pass), and 21 ft-lbs / 28 N∙m for the clutch bolts. Don't forget some Loctite.
...and then, with the help of Kage, mated the new engine to the tranny.
As it stands as of tonight:
Time to start hooking things back up, priming it, and then adding fluids. We found that a 981mm length accessory belt fits, so I'll edit the original post to include this. The stock was a 1017mm, and was too long. I tried a 1005mm length and a 965mm length, and one was too long still and the other too short. The 981mm belt that we found that worked ended up being a Gates K050385 (5PK981; 5 rib, 981 length) from O'Reillys.
Last edited by Stamina; 02-12-2012 at 10:56 PM.
02-12-2012, 11:07 PM
#48
Former Vendor
Had some setbacks today, but ended up making some good progress.
Pulled the old engine off of the subframe and separated it from the transmission.
Replaced the clutch slave cylinder / throwout bearing.
Installed Fidanza flywheel and ZZP Stage 4 clutch on new engine. Online specs and build book show 39 ft-lbs / 53 N∙m for the flywheel bolts (with 25° Final Pass), and 21 ft-lbs / 28 N∙m for the clutch bolts. Don't forget some Loctite.
...and then, with the help of Kage, mated the new engine to the tranny.
As it stands as of tonight:
Time to start hooking things back up, priming it, and then adding fluids. We found that a 981mm length accessory belt fits, so I'll edit the original post to include this. The stock was a 1017mm, and was too long. I tried a 1005mm length and a 965mm length, and one was too long still and the other too short. The 981mm belt that we found that worked ended up being a Gates K050385 (5PK981; 5 rib, 981 length) from O'Reillys.
Pulled the old engine off of the subframe and separated it from the transmission.
Replaced the clutch slave cylinder / throwout bearing.
Installed Fidanza flywheel and ZZP Stage 4 clutch on new engine. Online specs and build book show 39 ft-lbs / 53 N∙m for the flywheel bolts (with 25° Final Pass), and 21 ft-lbs / 28 N∙m for the clutch bolts. Don't forget some Loctite.
...and then, with the help of Kage, mated the new engine to the tranny.
As it stands as of tonight:
Time to start hooking things back up, priming it, and then adding fluids. We found that a 981mm length accessory belt fits, so I'll edit the original post to include this. The stock was a 1017mm, and was too long. I tried a 1005mm length and a 965mm length, and one was too long still and the other too short. The 981mm belt that we found that worked ended up being a Gates K050385 (5PK981; 5 rib, 981 length) from O'Reillys.
If you didn't already receive this information- Don't use a gasket on the hpfp when you have the larger fuel pump lobe. We set it up that way to center the stroke of the pump shaft correctly without the gasket, and it also adds a little bit of spring pressure that way as well. You can use a thin layer of rtv. There is an o-ring for the primary seal, anyway. If you already knew this, then just don't pay any attention to me.
02-12-2012, 11:37 PM
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Sorry about the belt. I was meaning to check what belt size I am running, but forgot to check the other day when I had a chance.
If you didn't already receive this information- Don't use a gasket on the hpfp when you have the larger fuel pump lobe. We set it up that way to center the stroke of the pump shaft correctly without the gasket, and it also adds a little bit of spring pressure that way as well. You can use a thin layer of rtv. There is an o-ring for the primary seal, anyway. If you already knew this, then just don't pay any attention to me.
If you didn't already receive this information- Don't use a gasket on the hpfp when you have the larger fuel pump lobe. We set it up that way to center the stroke of the pump shaft correctly without the gasket, and it also adds a little bit of spring pressure that way as well. You can use a thin layer of rtv. There is an o-ring for the primary seal, anyway. If you already knew this, then just don't pay any attention to me.
As far as the belt length, it took some trial and error, but we eventually pegged it. What was interesting to me is that the ATI balanced looks to be compatible with wider belts, with more than 5 ribs. I guess that it just never occured to me that they'd make them like that, but it makes sense.