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All You Need to Know About Different Tunes

2.0L LNF Performance Tech 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque Turbocharged tuner version.

All You Need to Know About Different Tunes

Old 03-21-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BRHumbert View Post
I just purchased the ZZP LNF PCM as well as a ZZP Spun Metal Catted Downpipe. I plan to do Stock Dyno Runs and then Dyno Runs with the ZZP PCM, ZZP Downpipe, and a K&N Drop In. I will comment on all issues once I have a feel for everything.
Please do, the more info we get in this thread the better.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
So true.
Oh I know lol.
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Old 03-21-2010, 05:34 PM
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this helps allot
nice write up
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tom.g View Post
Please do, the more info we get in this thread the better.
Well, it looks like Im not going to be able to do before and after dyno's. The Local Dyno Shop is in the middle of a move and wont be able to take appointments untill the end of April. I should be receiving my ZZP LNF PCM and Spun Metal Catted Downpipe tomorrow and there is no way that I can wait that long. I will make observations and post my findings though.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:07 AM
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These are my trifecta results

the first is bone stock.


the second is Trifecta with one 3bar tmap sensor on the driver side Intercooler pipe running @25psi
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:27 PM
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I just installed my ZZP Spun Metal Catted Downpipe and ZZP LNF PCM. My only other Mods are a K&N Drop-In. All I have to say is HOLY ****!!! The car has tremendous pull now yet the driveability seems to be better than stock. I have an Aeroforce Interceptor and I kept an eye on Wideband o2, Knock, Ignition Advance, and others to compare to stock. All parameters seem to be very similar to stock, but the power difference is night and day. My STFT and LTFT seem to be more stable than they were with the stock tune too. I cant comment on fuel mileage yet because I have been enjoying the extra power a little to much. I have no experience with GMS1 but I would say that the ZZP LNF PCM is probablly a better alternative. I now have the ZZP PCM and my factory PCM for warranty purposes. I will be hitting a Dyno as soon as my local place becomes available again. If anyone has any specific questions feel free to ask. ZZP FTMFW!!!
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BRHumbert View Post
I just installed my ZZP Spun Metal Catted Downpipe and ZZP LNF PCM. My only other Mods are a K&N Drop-In. All I have to say is HOLY ****!!! The car has tremendous pull now yet the driveability seems to be better than stock. I have an Aeroforce Interceptor and I kept an eye on Wideband o2, Knock, Ignition Advance, and others to compare to stock. All parameters seem to be very similar to stock, but the power difference is night and day. My STFT and LTFT seem to be more stable than they were with the stock tune too. I cant comment on fuel mileage yet because I have been enjoying the extra power a little to much. I have no experience with GMS1 but I would say that the ZZP LNF PCM is probablly a better alternative. I now have the ZZP PCM and my factory PCM for warranty purposes. I will be hitting a Dyno as soon as my local place becomes available again. If anyone has any specific questions feel free to ask. ZZP FTMFW!!!
Stage 1 is best suited to those who either want to keep their powertrain warranty no questions asked or who want to build on top of the expanded 3 bar OS and sensors. Lots of potential especially for those wanting to run over 22 psi with an aftermarket turbo without having to install a MBC or EBC. Nice to have the sensors and capability to run 30 psi if you want to.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:44 PM
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Term, have you had a chance to mess with the new map/tmap sensors in HPTuner yet?
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS1 View Post
Term, have you had a chance to mess with the new map/tmap sensors in HPTuner yet?
I rewrote the entire ECM and changed to the stage 1 OS and sensors. Stock Stage 1 tune file with my MAF tables and COT removed. I want to see how quick the stock stage 1 tune is compared to my regular 22 psi tune in my car. I normally run 4.5-4.6 seconds from 60-100 mph at 22 psi with my current mods. I am thinking that it is going to run approx 6.5-7.0 seconds from 60-100. Stock tune runs ~8.8-9.5 seconds normally from 60-100. I am hoping that once I mod the tune a ton I will be able to run an honest 4 seconds flat from 60-100.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:59 PM
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Nice.. have you messed with the boost tables yet? I know you said you still won't be able to log over 255kpa but is there a way around this with or without the 3bar map?
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
I rewrote the entire ECM and changed to the stage 1 OS and sensors. Stock Stage 1 tune file with my MAF tables and COT removed. I want to see how quick the stock stage 1 tune is compared to my regular 22 psi tune in my car. I normally run 4.5-4.6 seconds from 60-100 mph at 22 psi with my current mods. I am thinking that it is going to run approx 6.5-7.0 seconds from 60-100. Stock tune runs ~8.8-9.5 seconds normally from 60-100. I am hoping that once I mod the tune a ton I will be able to run an honest 4 seconds flat from 60-100.
Looking forward to your findings.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS1 View Post
Nice.. have you messed with the boost tables yet? I know you said you still won't be able to log over 255kpa but is there a way around this with or without the 3bar map?
Software's scanner has a 255 kPa limit apparently. The Maps read up to 30 psi accurately but my scanner will not . The factory boost gauage should be pretty accurate up to 30 psi because of the new sensors. I have not yet touched the boost control tables. I have also not been able to use WOT because really wet nasty weather still. Hopefully rain stops soon.
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
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So the bottom line on the LNF is that common tuning practices don't apply to the LNF the same as other popular competitors. Yes? No?

I read, or maybe heard, that Vince at Trifecta can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors and get the same results as with the 3 bar sensors eliminating the need for them.

This is one of, if not THE, best threads I've seen on CSS.net thus far. Thanks for some really good, accurate and informative info. Readers should now be able to make more informed decisions on mods and tuning. Thanks Terminator2! Really!
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by buellfooll View Post
So the bottom line on the LNF is that common tuning practices don't apply to the LNF the same as other popular competitors. Yes? No?

I read, or maybe heard, that Vince at Trifecta can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors and get the same results as with the 3 bar sensors eliminating the need for them.

This is one of, if not THE, best threads I've seen on CSS.net thus far. Thanks for some really good, accurate and informative info. Readers should now be able to make more informed decisions on mods and tuning. Thanks Terminator2! Really!
Vince can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors by tricking the ECM into thinking it is seeing only 238 kPa (20psi) when it can be seeing up to 300 kPa (30 psi). That is what the infiniboost tune does. In my honest opinion though it is a lot better to tune around the expanded 3 bar OS and 3 bar sensors that the stage 1 kit offers. The sensors see and accurately measure up to 30 psi without having to trick the ecm or the wastegate by running a pill or other MBC or EBC. What kind of pressure levels are you seeing on your car now after he tuned it?
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:14 PM
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Term correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding if you won't be exceeding 22-23PSi the stock 2 Bar sensors will work fairly well. Benefits from the 3-bar sensors are only seen when going with higher presure?
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tom.g View Post
Term correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding if you won't be exceeding 22-23PSi the stock 2 Bar sensors will work fairly well. Benefits from the 3-bar sensors are only seen when going with higher presure?
Yes the limit of the 2.5 bar sensors is 22.5 psi or 255 kPa. The Stage 1 OS allows for more control though of the desired boost levels so you can tune it to hold 22-23 psi a little longer up top if you want. The regular stage 1 tune is designed to drop off a lot up top but that can be very easily fixed.

Last edited by Terminator2; 03-30-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
Yes the limit of the 2.5 bar sensors is 22.5 psi or 255 kPa. The Stage 1 OS allows for more control though of the desired boost levels so you can tune it to hold 22-23 psi a little longer up top if you want. The regular stage 1 tune is designed to drop off a lot up top but that can be very easily fixed.
So your saying your happy with the result of the sensors and GMS1, with a touch of Term.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:33 PM
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Can't wait for you to tune on top of the GMS1 Term!!!
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
Vince can tune around the stock 2 bar sensors by tricking the ECM into thinking it is seeing only 238 kPa (20psi) when it can be seeing up to 300 kPa (30 psi). That is what the infiniboost tune does. In my honest opinion though it is a lot better to tune around the expanded 3 bar OS and 3 bar sensors that the stage 1 kit offers. The sensors see and accurately measure up to 30 psi without having to trick the ecm or the wastegate by running a pill or other MBC or EBC. What kind of pressure levels are you seeing on your car now after he tuned it?
Boost is spiking then settling in around 22 - 23#. But compared to stock, then the Turbo Upgrade and now Trifecta I'm happy. For the time being. I haven't done any data logging to get the thing fine tuned yet. The cable will be my next toy. But to be truthful, until I can put some REAL sticky tires under it more power would only be good for pounding my chest and hollering "Me Tarzan, You Jane". The Direzza Star Specs aren't geetting the job done even with a UTQG rating of 200. Now if somebody could design a program to sense wheel spin and adjust power output to a level just in that sweet spot between acceleration and spinning the tires they could be a rich man. Or woman!

And I'm open to wheel/tire suggestions.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by buellfooll View Post
Boost is spiking then settling in around 22 - 23#. But compared to stock, then the Turbo Upgrade and now Trifecta I'm happy. For the time being. I haven't done any data logging to get the thing fine tuned yet. The cable will be my next toy. But to be truthful, until I can put some REAL sticky tires under it more power would only be good for pounding my chest and hollering "Me Tarzan, You Jane". The Direzza Star Specs aren't geetting the job done even with a UTQG rating of 200. Now if somebody could design a program to sense wheel spin and adjust power output to a level just in that sweet spot between acceleration and spinning the tires they could be a rich man. Or woman!

And I'm open to wheel/tire suggestions.
Pedders springs will help keep the front from lifting and spining as much because they lower the front quite a bit but keep the rear high. I get quite a bit better traction than I used to and I am on 19K mile well worn stock tires. Tires will be close to rubbing in the front though as you have 245/40s on there. Hard to hookup on a fwd car with a lot of torque on tap. Wait until it warms up into the 80s and 90s those dunlops will become a lot stickier.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:16 PM
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This is probably the most appropriate place for it, but feel free to edit, or I can remove if Term feels it's inappropriate. Gettinausernamesucks is a GM engineer:

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks
Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Bill you beat me to it. That thing has been detonating like a MO!!!!!!!!!. Better find out why or your new pistons won't last long. I'll be suprised if the ring lands on the stockers arent broken when you take them out. Adding timing advance below 2000 breaks them to.

The scoring is caused by either a broken second land, piston crown overheating from preignition causing it to overexpand and drag the cylinder wall on the exhaust side or ring end butt on the top ring from the same effect.
It should be noted that I recall a previous post from him mentioning that no additional timing should be added under 2500 RPM.

Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks
Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Doesn't matter how hard its driven. At 24 PSI the turbo is running at 90 to 100% rated impeller speed. Anything beyond that just invites compressor surge and soaring charge air temps. Just slapping one of these go for broke cals into an LNF is just creating a grenade. I don't know Vince but he's doing his customers a great disservice because I know he knows that much boost is a ticking timebomb in an LNF with stock piston ring end gaps and a stock intercooler. Not to mention setting the turbo up for an untimely failure.

AF ratio being 11 or 12 ain't gonna fix charge air temps that are probably 250 to 300 degrees or ring end gaps that are to tight for that level of crown temp.

Think about this for a minute. ZZP is making what 425/450 on 24 lbs from a proper setup. Whats the difference why won't a stocker make that. AIRFLOW! Their working the head. SO what do you think 30 pounds in a stock head is doing. Thats right backing up in the ports. And what happens when the air backs up? It gets hotter than a MO!
Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks
Originally Posted by Gettinausernamesucks View Post
Sorry guys. I just get a little frusturated when I see folks thrash a perfectly good motor when it could have been avoided. That said if they did it out of their own HP greed and decided to be lazy thats their own fault. If they did it because somone sold them on something that was pie in the sky shame on them. If vince is discouraging people from this then good on him.

Let me say this one time again. Anything over 24/25 LBS on the stock turbo and intercooler will grenade the motor. Its not a matter of if its when.

If you want to go more than that then you need to step up. Add a bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, and adjust the piston clearances and ring gaps.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:21 PM
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Ah! That's some very nice information!! I never knew he said that, but I believe it.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:41 PM
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Slight typo, but thought it might be worth pointing out:

Originally Posted by tom.g View Post
What You Should Know Before Getting a Tune
written by tom.g
...The GM Turbo Upgrade Kit (GMS1) tune is the only tune which comes with upgraded MAF Sensors (3 Bar vs 2 Bar)...
Should be MAP. Otherwise great writeup!
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wangspeed View Post
This is probably the most appropriate place for it, but feel free to edit, or I can remove if Term feels it's inappropriate. Gettinausernamesucks is a GM engineer:



It should be noted that I recall a previous post from him mentioning that no additional timing should be added under 2500 RPM.
There is defintaely no sense in adding timing below 3,000 RPMs. Running the spark close to the exhaust valve opening (smaller timing numbers) helps spool the turbo up because it creates hotter EGTs.
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Old 04-05-2010, 04:06 PM
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Term/Tom.g here are some more tunes available to be added on the first page.

http://cobalt.dejonpowerhouse.com/ed...lectronics.htm

Last edited by crypticscifer; 04-05-2010 at 04:22 PM.
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