buellfooll

Send me a phone # or email address and we can talk about the stuff I've got for the TC. Everything is for sale and is off the car. New Cruze should be here by the end of the month. There is too much to list.

Bill

AARON-SS-TC

iTrader: (3)

Pm'd back

turboSS420

is the ppc hahn tune one that is always on or is it one that is turned on thru cruise control or trac control button i bought an 08 ss tc in january and havee been trying to see what has all been done to it. but from what i can see there is a CAI catback exhaust with muffler delete and my boost is 22-23psi and 1st and 2nd gear do rev to 7000 and 3-5 only do 6300 which would lead me to believe it has the hahn ppc tune but do you know any others like this one or do you think it has hahn ppc aswell??

soundjunky

iTrader: (4)

that's alot of "hahn" in that post...

if it's a selectable/Hidden tune, then it's from Trifecta;
I would suspect that Vince can tell you specifics about the tune if you message him with your vin number.

turboSS420

ok who is this vince

soundjunky

iTrader: (4)

Vince is Trifecta

Trifecta Performance Custom Tuning :: Home Page and News

He's the man behind the company... the one making all the perpetrated "canned" tunes for each vehicle... specific to each vehicle

PikerAA

subd

gray ss/tc

iTrader: (1)

Sub

bcc09ss/tc

Any tuners close to wichita ks?

Shua

In regards to the GMS1 tune; After doing some reading here on the site I understand it's a "canned" tune and any cobalt running the GMS1 won't really get the benifits of any bolt-ons, header, exhaust, upgraded intercooler et al.

When I bought my cobalt used (2010 SS/TC), it already had the GMS1 kit installed from the previous owner. When I get back from my deployment I was considering buying some go-fast toys for the Cobalt. But, if buying some toys for the cobalt is pointless with the GMS1 perhaps I should go in another direction, such as removing the spoiler or something else.

I guess my question is this; how much truth is there to a cobalt not benifiting from bolt-ons and the GMS1? The way I understand it, any upgrades made will be compencated by the computer. Some clarification is needed please.

NinjaHampster

very nice.

Dino09

wow real nice info for my first forum to read i would like to say. im new at this and car modification i own a 2009 t/c and have just installed a aem cai so far with no problems and just wondering if a zzp chip would be a good next mod? and if i can change on the fly also? im staying in san diego if anyone is near

fiveothis

Awesome info

StrykerCC

I have spent hours reading the forums and I am left with a basic question. If I understand what I've read correctly, the stock sensor is good to 21.9psi. The ZZP tune says it's 22psi. I have already ordered the 3 Bar sensors, but if they aren't needed I am thinking of canceling the order!

So the question is, is there any benefit from 3 bar sensors for the 22psi ZZP tune, or should I just keep the stock sensors?

kingofpoland

iTrader: (1)

stock sensor is good for 21.9PSI but technically, when you get to the 20+ range it wont read as accurate as 30psi would. you are on the high side of your range and that is not always accurate. keep the 30psi sensor.

StrykerCC

Thanks for your quick response. I really appreciate the help!

gropingpriest

What exactly do the 3 bar sensors do? I'm really new to forced induction

rnjmur

1 BAR = 14.5 psi or atmospheric pressure at sea level. A 3 BAR sensor can read to 3 times the atmospheric pressure at sea level or 43.5 psi. A boost guage measures the amount of psi over the current barometric pressure, so at sea level 0 on a boost guage = 14.5 psi or 1 BAR. The stock Cobalt SS has a 2.5 BAR sensor which means that it can read up to 36.25 psi or a theoretical 21.75 psi on a boost guage at sea level. Of course there is some give and take at the top of the sensor reading so at best you will typically see only the sensor max at about 20 psi at sea level. The 3 BAR sensor allows the car to get boost up to a theoretical 29 psi of boost at sea level. Again, the actual maximum is closer to ~26.5 psi of boost maximum at sea level.

The stock TC is usually somewhere around 15 psi boost. This is fine for the 2.5 BAR sensor but with a tune or with the GM stage kit the boost can go over the 2.5 BAR sensor limit of 20 psi of boost at sea level, hence where the install of the 3 BAR sensors becomes necessary.

09CobaltSS1

The map sensors have absolutely nothing to do with how much boost you can or can't make. You can boost as far and high as you'd like on the 2.5bar sensors, you'll just never be able to MONITOR beyond the roughly 23.5psi at sea level limit of the sensor. Upgrading to the 3bar sensors is done primarily for 2 reasons.

1) So your tuner can safely monitor and control anything over the 23.5psi limitations of the stock 2.5bar sensors (there is built in head room in the 2.5bar sensor, hence the 23.5psi limit and not 21.75)

2) So the ecm can, as accurately as possible, monitor for over boosting conditions for a given commanded boost range and adjust itself accordingly. Even beyond the range of the stock sensors, the ecm can still relatively accurately monitor boost levels through other methods.

This also does not mean that if you're looking to do a 22psi tune, that somehow the upper range of the sensor will be less accurate than say the midrange of the sensor, as someone had earlier suggested. It is not. Accuracy is very minimally effected at the top of the range of the sensor. Which is also in part why it has built in head room.

My opinion. If you have no plans of going beyond 22pi, simply stick with the stock sensors and call it a day. If you do plan on pushing beyond that limit, then by all means upgrade. Just understand that the ecm needs to be calibrated to accept the 3bar sensors before they can be run.

I can't believe the misinformation that's still kicking around about this sort of subject.

rnjmur

True, you can boost as high as you like but since you cannot monitor the amount of boost you are making and the ECM has to extrapolate values once the MAP sensor tops out. Going above the 5V reading is just asking for trouble since you going to assume that the MAP is remaining accurate above that voltage level when in all reality it probably is not. Everyone who gets an aftermarket tune wants more than 21.5 psi so the best thing to do is get the 3 BAR MAP. Why risk blowing your motor over $100 worth of parts and 30 minutes of time? You also have to remember that barometric pressure plays a big part in calculating "boost" as well. 21.5 psi boost maybe 22 psi boost for another person and might be 21 psi boost for another person depending on there elevation and the current humidity. In Missouri, where I am from, atmospheric pressure can swing from 14.4 psi to 14.7 psi. If you live in Denver than your atmospheric pressure probably sits somewhere around 12.1 to 12.5 psi in which case you probably never need a 3 BAR MAP unless you drive to a lower elevation or have an insane tune.

My point is this: There are many reasons to get 3 BAR MAPs when tuning for higher than "stock" boost. If you know for a fact that you will never need 3 BAR MAPs for your tune and conditions than by all means the stock 2.5 BAR MAPs will be enough. If not, than the safest thing to do is understand that engineers made a lot of calculations to ensure that the car was safe to drive in all conditions when running higher than stock boost and they determined that 3 BAR sensors were necessary in order to do this.

northvibe

iTrader: (1)

The cobalt will benefit from GMS1, but it will be a "safe" for all states tune. It does not optimize the gains that COULD be. You can bolt all the parts on and feel a difference, but it will still try to command what it was told, it will just do this more efficiently.

Once you tune, with HPT, and really try to get as much as you can, you now have to maintain that, all year. WHich is not possible without retuning as the gas/weather changes. It is kind of a pita.

If you can get safely tuned for year round on hpt, or just run gms1, you'll be fine without retuning.

I @#$#@$ cannot believe people still use Trifecta....wtf.

StrykerCC

From Steve @ ZZPerformance.com:
[...] The tune will work fine with the stock sensors. Doing the tune is just the best opportunity to upgrade to the GMS1 sensors, so you do not require an update to your tune WHEN the stockers fail.

Psykostevo

Yes, people do have dead MAP sensors from excessive boosting on the stockers.

95Z28

You don't have a problem with throwing a code if you top out the sensors? I always thought that once you are at the top end of the stock sensors, you might be crawling into a place where the top sensor may not necessarily be reading the same as the bottom.

almcphee

Thanks to all the contributors on this subject!
Good info to help make a " flash" decision !