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All You Need to Know About Different Tunes

2.0L LNF Performance Tech 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque Turbocharged tuner version.

All You Need to Know About Different Tunes

Old 02-01-2011, 02:13 PM
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Everyone please stop using "learn down". The feature you are refering to is the driver desired torque vs actual torque output. If the ECM senses via the airloads (MAF and MAP) seen that the car is exceeding the driver desired torque the ECM will modify the desired boost in order to meet the desired (target) torque. You can never remove the torque based ECM controls the ECM has but they can be set higher than the car can acheive through tuning.
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
Everyone please stop using "learn down". The feature you are refering to is the driver desired torque vs actual torque output. If the ECM senses via the airloads (MAF and MAP) seen that the car is exceeding the driver desired torque the ECM will modify the desired boost in order to meet the desired (target) torque. You can never remove the torque based ECM controls the ECM has but they can be set higher than the car can acheive through tuning.
^^ My point exactly. It is pointless to explain as nobody seems to understand that there isn't any such thing as "learn down".

I have seen and tuned enough LNFs to tell you that there are most definitely still peak HP/TQ limits set within the ECM.
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rnjmur View Post
The GM stage 1 DOES NOT remove the learn down. ...
Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
Everyone please stop using "learn down". The feature you are refering to is ...
Originally Posted by rnjmur View Post
^^ My point exactly. It is pointless to explain as nobody seems to understand that there isn't any such thing as "learn down"...
Wait a minute.... x100,000

Originally Posted by rnjmur View Post
...nobody seems to understand that there isn't any such thing as "learn down". ...
Originally Posted by rnjmur View Post
The GM stage 1 DOES NOT remove the learn down. ...
(repeated to prove my point)


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Old 02-01-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
... You can never remove the torque based ECM controls the ECM has but they can be set higher than the car can acheive through tuning.
Is it possible that the peak torque tables you speak of are somehow associated with the torque capacity of the F35?

I have read several times of people suggesting that the F35 is inferior to the F23, when in fact the F35 has a much higher torque rating as seen HERE;
F35 = 258ft-lb
F23 = 170ft-lb

Those numbers are pretty tough to refute... but this is just another piece of info that is being repeated around here and on other web sites...


Just trying to figure this all out...
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by soundjunky View Post
Is it possible that the peak torque tables you speak of are somehow associated with the torque capacity of the F35?

I have read several times of people suggesting that the F35 is inferior to the F23, when in fact the F35 has a much higher torque rating as seen HERE;
F35 = 258ft-lb
F23 = 170ft-lb

Those numbers are pretty tough to refute... but this is just another piece of info that is being repeated around here and on other web sites...


Just trying to figure this all out...
I offered my opinion on RATINGS a while ago. It went something like this. Every manufacturer that manufactures a part that is subject to any kind of strain tests the part and attaches a MANUFACTURERS RATING. In the normal world most manufacturere under RATE their product to avoid warranty/confidence problems if in use that part exceeds their RATING. In my small world I've found most manufacturers test a part to it's FAILURE point, several times, and assigns a rating based on those tests. But they test to destruction so they rate their part to ONE HALF of what it takes to break the part. That would assume the F35, rated at 258 ft lb would test at more than 500 ft lb. That doesn't mean it will take that every time but is probably an average of the tests they did. Actually I did read somewhere online, NOT on this forum, that when the Stage 1 was released and the power went up the rating on the F35 was also raised to match the new torque numbers. But using my experiences that would mean they were still well within the 500 ft lb point of destruction. Also, there are guys on here that are claiming over 500 ft lb with zero trans problems.

Understand! This is what I have been told and witnessed NOT actual experience. There might have been some slight of hand going on.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by soundjunky View Post
Is it possible that the peak torque tables you speak of are somehow associated with the torque capacity of the F35?

I have read several times of people suggesting that the F35 is inferior to the F23, when in fact the F35 has a much higher torque rating as seen HERE;
F35 = 258ft-lb
F23 = 170ft-lb

Those numbers are pretty tough to refute... but this is just another piece of info that is being repeated around here and on other web sites...


Just trying to figure this all out...
GM raised the rated torque capacity of the F-35 to 320 ft/lbs when the stage 1 kit came to be. In a way yes the peak torque output with the stock tune and GM stage 1 is based off the torque capactity of the F-35.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
... In a way yes the peak torque output with the stock tune and GM stage 1 is based off the torque capactity of the F-35.
so then if we use this as the basis for continuing a logical explanation as to why this is a factor in tuning these cars;

Originally Posted by Terminator2 View Post
... The feature you are refering to is the driver desired torque vs actual torque output. If the ECM senses via the airloads (MAF and MAP) seen that the car is exceeding the driver desired torque the ECM will modify the desired boost in order to meet the desired (target) torque. You can never remove the torque based ECM controls the ECM has but they can be set higher than the car can acheive through tuning.
Maybe then this could be interpreted as a second "hidden" safety built into the stage1;

First safety: Turbo overspool (IIRC this is directly relative to rev limit; which is why the LSJ can be set to a higher rev limit than the LNF)

Second safety: "Torque ceiling" or "Torque management" based on actual torque capacity of the F35 (although this allows for aftermarket "bolt on's" to be used, it will auto adjust if the ECM calculates the torque will be exceeding the transmissions limits)

This would make sense to me...
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:47 AM
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Any cobalt ss/tc for sale

i am looking for one for sale in Souther California... pm me if any of u guys know of any!

Thanks in Advance

Sam
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by guanaco008 View Post
i am looking for one for sale in Souther California... pm me if any of u guys know of any!

Thanks in Advance

Sam
a car? wait why post in a tuner thread then?
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:18 AM
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also something to mention about trifecta is you can use it's extra features and tune it with hptuners if wanted
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Old 02-04-2011, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by guanaco008 View Post
i am looking for one for sale in Souther California... pm me if any of u guys know of any!

Thanks in Advance

Sam
Wrong thread, but a quick search revealed:

2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbocharged Coupe For Sale - CarGurus
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by soundjunky View Post
Wait a minute.... x100,000



(repeated to prove my point)


When you try and explain the what the car actually does to control torque nobody ever understands it and they still insist on calling it "learn down". I use the term simply to keep fluidity to the conversation otherwise people get lost (more lost than usual I should say) when you start talking about airloads and driver desired torque settings and the wastegate duty cycle being the actual limiters and not the fabled "learn down".
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:21 PM
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Awesome thread wish I found this sooner.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:47 AM
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how do u guys like ur GMS1?
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:55 AM
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how do u guys like ur GMS1?
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:11 PM
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So therefore is it a waste of time to get other mods if i plan to get GMS1?

I was planning on getting the K&N Intake and the outside possibility of a DP as well.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:49 AM
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I think I'm gonna go with Trifecta, I heard alot of good things about them.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gotboost?17 View Post
how do u guys like ur GMS1?
i got the GMS1 about two weeks ago. I can deffinitely tell a difference in power, and torque steer in 3rd is present as well. over all im happy with the power and I dont have worry about warranty issues when/if something pops up.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:41 AM
  #194  
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Wtf is ***ody?
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:13 PM
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SO, is the GMS1 a good tune to still be able to put bolt-ons on afterward, or should i just do bolt-ons and wait to use a better tune after the warranty is up?

All this talk about learn up and down and all around has my head f'd up...lol
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:18 PM
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You could start off with GMS1 and get a better tune after.
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AARON-SS-TC View Post
SO, is the GMS1 a good tune to still be able to put bolt-ons on afterward, or should i just do bolt-ons and wait to use a better tune after the warranty is up?

All this talk about learn up and down and all around has my head f'd up...lol
Hey AARON!!! I'll sell you all the boltons you need. They're off the car and ready to go. Check my sig for what I've got. I'm going to start acting my age and trading the Cobalt for a 2012 Cruze which is on order right now. You even live here in FL which would make it real easy. Take a short trip to Daytona and take a look. Bring some money and I'm sure we can work something out. And if anybody else wants the car I'm open to offers. It's a 09 sedan and is cherry with 29000 miles. Owned by a litle old man that only drove it to NY and back a couple of times.
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by buellfooll View Post
Hey AARON!!! I'll sell you all the boltons you need. They're off the car and ready to go. Check my sig for what I've got. I'm going to start acting my age and trading the Cobalt for a 2012 Cruze which is on order right now. You even live here in FL which would make it real easy. Take a short trip to Daytona and take a look. Bring some money and I'm sure we can work something out. And if anybody else wants the car I'm open to offers. It's a 09 sedan and is cherry with 29000 miles. Owned by a litle old man that only drove it to NY and back a couple of times.
thanks, pm me and give me prices..i would like to meet ya, and see how the car drives, but most likely you would just have to ship the stuff to me and i would have to see for myself that way...thanks again
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Old 08-03-2011, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AARON-SS-TC View Post
SO, is the GMS1 a good tune to still be able to put bolt-ons on afterward, or should i just do bolt-ons and wait to use a better tune after the warranty is up?
I am wondering this to. I have GMS1 and I keep thinking about getting a downpipe and catback exhaust. So will the car actually make more power? Or would it be a waste of time and money?
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:58 PM
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Ive decided not to spend $450 on gms1 then another $200 on the install = $650.
I am gonna go with the trifecta "stealth" tune for $350 + shipping and be done with it.
Hope all goes well with it and nothing crazy happens in the winter like some have said
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