so the k04+ has surging issues down below 4,000 rpms? And no "proven" way to get around it?sound like ko4 - so far..... Well too bad i guess.... bigger turbo here i come.

 

It was overcome through tuning the boost to raise up after that point or by clipping the turbo.

 

lol so in a sense one could use it as sort of launch/traction control so you cant hit full bust till a ways under motion..... hmm.

how much boost is made before surge occurs?

 

lol yeah

I was thinking that about turbo swaps in general the other day. I was like, why do I care to even keep it small?... It'd be pointless off the line anyway. lol

 

^^exactly...all thats needed for the k04 upgrade is a good tune.

in all honesty kappa vs delta is 2 different things like stated above. i wouldnt even say the delta chassis wants big hp. its more or so the cobalt guy that want big hp. ive yet to see an hhr with big power goals around here let alone a cobalt other then mine and 1 that zzp just finished other going for serious power. all in all you pay to play

 

Im curious as to why you are so adamant that the same exact engine with a SLIGHTLY more restrictive airflow system would not apply to the same motor in an engine bay with better performance characteristics. Why would the kappa be any different then the delta?

And if your point is correct, than why would the HHR and Cobalt SS results all of a sudden be one in the same, since if its in a different designed engine bay, it would clearly be different by your argument.

If werks is makin so little on it (by his saying) that he doesnt even have wiggle room to give you a % off to actually try it off, than why would you expect them to have the money to use up a whole kit worth of money and time, with a small (and iffy) market.

I see both sides, i just dont understand why OP is driving home the point that since its a diff car its drastically different results. I dunno If i was sick I would take advice from a doctor, If i needed to build a shed id ask a carpenter etc etc etc... not sure how this is different....

 

I'll have this all up for you guys really soon I've been working with a new turbo company for the LNF on a similar set up to this. As soon as I'm done with all of the preliminary testing, I'll have a thread up with all of the information. As of now I've been on the dyno to receive base line numbers for the stock turbo with bolt-ons, I installed the turbo this past Saturday (5-30-10), and I'll be getting tuned for it this week (granted everything goes to plan) by Vince and dyno for results the end of this week or the following week (few variables in that). So far, so good on this turbo; I haven't had any problems at all
Stay tuned!

P.S. Sorry to OP for any sort of thread jack... I'm hoping this will be the answer to what you and obviously others alike are looking for.

 

Are you the guy that Mallard from the Solstice forums is working with on your cobalt for a new bolt on turbo? If so I've been anxiously awaiting the results, I have that thread subscribed to over there I'd take a true bolt on 375-400 whp turbo, its exactly what the community needs to fill the gap between stock and the turbo upgrade kits.

No problem about your post, sounds like you guys are developing exactly what I'm after. I'm actually relieved you posted up something because I was ordering a turbo kit at the end of this week, now I'm gonna hold off and find out your results.

Because the 2 Cobalt ss/tc's that had the K04+ upgrade (although not the werks version according to mkriebs) ran like absolute ****, even with alot of tuning. I don't think either of them gained much over stock and I believe they even lost torque to boot. I just would prefer some real results on the delta platform, since we've seen 2 that had bad results.

I don't know what Werks has to do to there K04+ vs. BTF's. BTF's K04+ wheel upgrade is $825.00, Werks is $999.00, I would guess the difference is in the cost of the machine work as there is only one place to buy the bigger billet wheel for the K04+. All I was saying is if you want to prove the K04+ on a delta, get it on a delta platform and post some real world results. I offered to do it at a discount, as I would have been taking all the risk if it turned out terrible (it was not an unreasonable request). Nothing more, nothing less.

 

well good luck, it would be interesting to fix up the stock turbo without doing a whole swap.

 

The problem with swapping the compressor wheel in the stock turbo is that the exhaust wheel is then mismatched. This is what causes the surge issues. When there is more overall pressure on the compressor wheel (figuring in boost and surface area) than there is on the exhaust wheel, then the turbo stops spooling and slows down very quickly. This is commonly known as compressor surge. If we could replace the exhaust wheel with a larger one, the issue would be resolved. However, the exhaust housing is cast in such a way, that it can not be machined for a larger exhaust wheel. This limits us to only making so much power, regardless of compressor wheel choice.

 

I am the guy that is working with Mallard I just got a user name on solstice and it wouldn't let me post up yet because I needed to wait for approval. But once I found this thread I figured I'd jump in. I'm working on getting the total results for this turbo to him as well as the entire LNF community asap. I'll keep everyone posted, and as stated before, I'll make a thread with all of the findings. But if I were you, I'd wait for this gem!

 

This is one of the most insightful and easy-to-understand inputs I've seen in a long time. Thanks.

 

Oh I'm waiting man , I told him I would be the first to run it on my HHR SS if the testing results came back good. This is the first promising true bolt on since the talk of the K04+ (which was fail as far as cost to performance gains go). I'm glad he isn't trying to just rush this out to market as the next big thing but instead is taking the time to test it out before releasing it to the public.
In my opinion if he sells them for the price range he stated, and the turbo puts down 375-400whp with a tune, the new turbo upgrade is going to be flying off the shelves. I've said it a million times and numerous times in this thread alone that the community is starving for a true bolt on turbo charge with proven results in the 375-400whp range.
I had to wait to be approved to post up on the solstice forums also, think it took a couple of days.

 

Tru fax. Yet, we at Werks really have not run into a surge issue. I have not checked out the KO4+ tune maps, but it is likely because we ramp boost in much differently than alot of people do.

 

Update: Getting dyno tuned remotely by Trifecta on Wednesday. Will post results soon after

 

That would explain it actually.

 

Might I add to my statement...?

When you think about it, ramping up boost slower is hardly a bad thing. Yes, it 'feels' a bit slower off the line, but I can see it only helping the cause, especially in a front wheel drive car. To a minor point, ramping boost in slower will allow more traction to be had. Which, could very easily result in quicker times.

 

Good stuff man , I know some of the guys over on HHR.net are awaiting me to update them over there with some testing, as I'm sure Mallard will update everyone on the Solstice forums.

 

So how did it go after I left the dyno last week? Was nice meeting you and watching the test & tune take place.

 

Dude , have you ever seen a TD04 Mandifold off of an SRt-4 , The turbine is actually stuck in the manifold **** eyed ... You think the K04 Balt design is bad , at least they gave us a K04 that bolts to a manifold and not something with a smaller trim like 75% of the other turbo 4's offered by every one else. We got it pretty good actually right now, with all the trans failures , I would be worried more about how you are going to run the power safely. This car is kind showing its weaknesses early so it kind of made me think twice about the big turbo setups. I personally would be better off just trading this in for a Z28 LS9 SC

 

Uh upgrade the trans if it fails. If you guys are unprepared to upgrade broken stuff then you should leave your car stock or GMS1, especially if its your DD. Not all of us have to worry about our LNF powered car being our DD, sure the warranty is nice, but gotta take responsibilty for it yourself if you go past GMS1.

Pay to play. I would just prefer a true bolt on turbo instead of having to switch out manifolds, or putting an adapter on, a new DP (or adapter again).

Anyone can build a V8, to me thats the easy way out, always has been. Then you can have the same fast car as every other joe blow does.

 

Doesn't the entire turbo car community What other platforms do you know that you can just slap a bolt on turbo and call it good.. I wanna know...

 

There's are a few out there, heck my GN from the 80's had bolt on turbo options, most VW's do, etc. I'm sure you can think of 2 off the top of your head without really trying. Bolt on turbo, injectors, re-tune and go. Hint: one of them was a joint venture of 2 big Automobile companies, made from 1990-1999.

 

sti's have just turbo upgrades

 

ok so sti .......... and