i did read that. they said 400 horses.
on what dyno?
there are no sheets.
understandable, if you want to just bolt on another k04 thats fine.
but as many have said before what kind of rpm range will it have?
when will it run out of breath?

you're right to each their own.
depends on the power band you want, and if you're really willing to spend more cash to make it worthwhile.



of course it requires money.
you gotta pay to play.
so maybe you're right not an extra 500-700.
more like an extra grand. but when you piece it and buy it over a course of time...its a lot better. and doesn't hurt your wallet as much.

downtime would be less than hours with the k04 upgrade.
its a simple bolt on/bolt off.

however instead of running the k04 turbo, and trying to get every bit of breath out of it why not use a better turbo that won't limit you or have issues in the future. no one knows the reliability of the k04 turbo pushing this power even with an upgraded compressor.


s256 turbo = 1000 new
.38 tial wastegate= 279 new
oil lines parts to make yourself = less than 100
zzp log manifold = 299
200 for a custom made downpipe with vband. and even thats being pricey.
i'm sure the shop down the street will make one for 150. all is it is pipe bent, and welded with a vband and a flange to match my exhaust.


and then there is the custom argument, which i already covered which is the kit you piece will have its own issues.

this doesn't include the tune, because zzp's kit doesn't either. im sure shipping is a good bit more. there will be shipping on one part for me, and thats the manifold.
other than that, its all local.
i'm sure you all can find local places too that will give you all these parts and not require shipping and will give you deals.

with that calculation its roughly 1878.
so lets make it 2000. just in case there is anything extra needed by chance.

that still saves a grand.
of course this only applies to those that already have a tune, and just need to update it.....and also have all the charge piping with a bov installed and preferably a maf relocate.
however even people wanting the k04 upgrade will need the charge piping changed anyways, a new dp..and all that supporting mods. so either way, its hard to apply a price to everything.

i'd rather piece a kit, that i know will work and that will exceed what i'm using it for.
the turbo is good for 500+. i'll keep it below that and know that i have room to grow, not use the k04 at its max.


to each their own.
spend a grand and get your k04 upgraded, to run it to the max.
or spend roughly 2 grand and get power and not run it beyond its capability.

 

I like this idea. Thinking this is a very good route to take.

 

Y do u need to relocate the map sensor when u get a new turbo

 

wut?
i'm gonna assume typo...

you need to relocate to use a bov, and if you have a new turbo it won't have a bpv. so you'll need a bov.
UNLESS you are just gonna recirculate that boost back into the intake.
then you won' t need one.

 

Ok thanks good to know. What r the pros and cons of both tipes of bov's why would u put it into the intake and why would you not

 

hiltu is runing the BTF turbo wheel upgrade and i think he put down like 345whp and he had some compressor surge dont know if he and btf worked that out

 

LMFAO

 

 

well what i mean by recirculate is that you run a pipe from say an hks bov to your intake that way your maf readings are not off and the fuel trims don't get screwy.
thats why you use the maf relocate to fix that.

look at the bov and the pipe going to the intake.
thats recirculating it.


hks also has an adapter to do that, like the hahn bov.

if you look in my images, you'll see my hks without recirculating but because i've got the cold side pipe with a maf relocate.
i moved the maf sensor from the intake to the cold side basically.

without doing either of those and running a bov, you'll basically be skewing your air fuel ratios bc the maf sensor will be compensating for air that gets vented to atmosphere and essentially won't know its there, and will put too much fuel into the mix so it can make the car bog a little during shifts.

weak, there are cobalts with just an aggressive tune that have that much power.

 

Yes but they arent able to keep the torque up. Its probly spiking around ~3500-4000 rpm and falls off. This is where the wheel upgrade helps. But I cant see investing that much money when you could just save a little more and get a real turbo upgrade

 

you sir are win.
with the new tables from zzp/trifecta power doesn't fall off till 5k for me.
but i still agree with you. i want power all the way to the end.
exactly the point i'm trying to make with wheel upgrades.
neither can i. spend more and get real results.

 

But heres the old question then... whats better more house or more torque

 

And the answer depends on what you're wanting to do with the car...

 

nicely put.
either way,

horsepower determines how fast a car can travel, torque is how quickly that speed is reached. so like scott above said it depends on what you wanna do with the car.
if you wanna drag it, you need more torque. if you just wanna go plain fast more hp.
but in all reality its just bettery to have the numbers as close as possible...and sometimes that isn't possible.
like in the case of the tiny ko4 turbo that puts out a lot of heat but not as much actual air which mostly turns into torque.

 

TOk cool so after everything said now I will need to move my maf. And my map if I get a different turbo if I go with a bov. But if I have it blow the air back into the intake I will not.....? And I should get the zzp turbo and manifold and make a down pipe for it my self. Then I will be able to use all my hahn stuff?

 

not the map, just the maf.

and correct if you Vent to atmosphere = maf relocate
if you Recirculate = not needd
well i'm not saying necessarily get the zzp, i'm just saying its better if you piece a kit yourself.
it'll be much cheaper.
but then again custom jobs have their own issues. its up to you.
but yea, i'm going to custom make my own and will be using all my piping.
i'll probably have to get some new couplers for my hahn intake to meet the turbo inlet, and then a new coupler for the dejon pipe to get boost from the top of the turbo outlet but i'll figure it out.

 

What he said.^ The truth has been spoken. lol

Basically, if we had a bigger turbo for instance, we could hold the boost longer into the RPM range. That and the fact that we would then have a reason to rev higher would mean that we could get more HP out of the LNF.

Power is work per unit of time. HP = torque @ 5252 RPM on any engine, it's a mathematical certainty, so by nature if you can keep the torque higher longer into the RPM range then the HP will be higher. The fact that our turbo runs out of breath on top therefore means that we don't have a high HP figure.

This is why our cars are great for things like auto-x. We've got lots of torque over a majority of the RPM range, which is what is needed for something like that, not HP.




Soapbox: Our cars were made for things like auto-x and road courses... that's why we have the powerband that we do, LSD, a small turbo, twin scroll to increase response, baffled oil pan, FWD, lots of suspension R&D, etc.

This car isn't really made for drag racing, although it's shown to be impressive in that department too. If you want to make it better for that, I'd suggest stiffening up the rear, sticky tires, and bigger turbo (remember you're going to be on the top end most of the time). Notice I didn't say clutch for sure though. A weaker clutch won't be as big of a problem on the top end and I'd be careful with a stronger clutch, since if your tires don't give and your clutch doesn't give, then your tranny becomes the weak link. If you strengthen the tranny, then I'd say go all out. Just my opinion. /Soapbox

 

I'm the test car for this turbo... at this point we're looking into what is restricting the power. With the wheel that is currently in the turbo (prototype) I've held full boost up to 6700-6800 rpm (let off - I didn't take it to 7k rev limiter - lack of runway for 3rd gear). I was dyno tuned by Vince on a Mustand dyno and we were able to achieve about 20 hp up top but the turbo wasn't flowing as much air as anticipated. I've been working with Mallard and we're discussing what is holding us back, whether it be the intercooler (still stocker for me), intake (have stock airbox and K&N dropin), or the wheel itself (which he says he has others to try). This project is still going on; I'm more or less waiting on what he'd like to try for this.