Knock and Misfires
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Joined: 12-09-09
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From: Dixon, IL
yeah mine is orange. not sure on the sunfire. and thanks. aiming for 11.50's. the goal of 120+ traps wont be an issue this year.
Just have the OP email ryan at the address i posted... that will straighten a lot of it out.
Just have the OP email ryan at the address i posted... that will straighten a lot of it out.
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From: Alberta
Here email Ryan, and ask him. ALSO have him look at your tune, he is nice enough to do it for free most times. He works lose with Vince at Trifecta and can help your tune issue.
Ryan,
pnptuning@gmail.com
Ryan,
pnptuning@gmail.com
I might just have to monitor how my car reacts in 'competition mode' for now, and if it eliminates the problem then i'll look at running it more often.
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From: Dixon, IL
I appreciate the help, but I trust Vince in saying the car is running properly. If things get worse I will definately email him though and thank you for posting it. I'm not looking for ridiculous numbers here, I just want my car to have a decent tune on it that is fun when I want to have some fun. Trifecta was the right option for that. When I get the new motor dropped in my truck, I'll probably look at taking it to a dyno, but for now with my DD, I cant justify it.
I might just have to monitor how my car reacts in 'competition mode' for now, and if it eliminates the problem then i'll look at running it more often.
I might just have to monitor how my car reacts in 'competition mode' for now, and if it eliminates the problem then i'll look at running it more often.
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From: Alberta
My car was datalogged on a tarmac on a military base, something I did legally and safely at an event that took place last year near my hometown. Its just wrong to go around making assumptions. For all you know, everybody has been datalogging their tunes at the track...
this wouldnt happen on a dyno... i bet you could get a good reading at WOT on a dyno... Just sayin.
Funny story, I got passed by a top fuel car on the interstate today, he was doing a street tune too. He was using the interstate to tune it for the big race. Thats how they all do it because I got passed by a nitro funny car not even minutes later on the same stretch. Must be a popular area. I heard the nascar cars were parked on the on ramps waiting for their turn.
In reality, after doing much research and visiting hondatech.com, which is lightyears ahead of almost all car forums, the big boys are all dyno tuned. whether its NA or forced induction... Why? because they can dial in every single cell, hit WOT and run WOT as long as they want and not risk running out of road or hitting someone else. No street tune will ever maximize motor potential.
My car was tuned by, in my opinion, the best personal Ecotec tuner in the US and he works with Vince from trifecta on tuning. Again my opinion but he does things with the Eco's that most cant. My car is on a safety street tune by him knowing id be back sooner than later changing things and there was no point putting massive hours and wasting the dyno shops time tuning a setup that would be changed very soon.
Advantage of street tuning first, THEN dyno tuning, which is the proper order, not vice versa, is it takes less time because you already have a start from the street tune, saves money because it wont take as long on the dyno, and the shop likes it if they are busy you dont tie the dyno up all day long because it takes less pulls to dial the car in. You can hit WOT and not worry about losing traction, printouts to analyze data, not to mention personal safety and safety of the other motorists. A dyno tune will always maximize your motors potential.
Funny story, I got passed by a top fuel car on the interstate today, he was doing a street tune too. He was using the interstate to tune it for the big race. Thats how they all do it because I got passed by a nitro funny car not even minutes later on the same stretch. Must be a popular area. I heard the nascar cars were parked on the on ramps waiting for their turn.
In reality, after doing much research and visiting hondatech.com, which is lightyears ahead of almost all car forums, the big boys are all dyno tuned. whether its NA or forced induction... Why? because they can dial in every single cell, hit WOT and run WOT as long as they want and not risk running out of road or hitting someone else. No street tune will ever maximize motor potential.
My car was tuned by, in my opinion, the best personal Ecotec tuner in the US and he works with Vince from trifecta on tuning. Again my opinion but he does things with the Eco's that most cant. My car is on a safety street tune by him knowing id be back sooner than later changing things and there was no point putting massive hours and wasting the dyno shops time tuning a setup that would be changed very soon.
Advantage of street tuning first, THEN dyno tuning, which is the proper order, not vice versa, is it takes less time because you already have a start from the street tune, saves money because it wont take as long on the dyno, and the shop likes it if they are busy you dont tie the dyno up all day long because it takes less pulls to dial the car in. You can hit WOT and not worry about losing traction, printouts to analyze data, not to mention personal safety and safety of the other motorists. A dyno tune will always maximize your motors potential.
You must not ever drag race..... there is a reason why most nights are called "Test and Tune." How many Dyno's do you know of support more than 2000WHP? I don't care what you read on the internets, but the best tuning you can get out of your car is done in real world scenarios, and how the car is being used. A dyno tune isnt going to do **** for a top fuel dragster or an F1 Car. Its great for initial dial in, but after that, the tweaks need to be made on pavement.
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From: Anna, TX
Thread Starter
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From: Alberta
You must not ever drag race..... there is a reason why most nights are called "Test and Tune." How many Dyno's do you know of support more than 2000WHP? I don't care what you read on the internets, but the best tuning you can get out of your car is done in real world scenarios, and how the car is being used. A dyno tune isnt going to do **** for a top fuel dragster or an F1 Car. Its great for initial dial in, but after that, the tweaks need to be made on pavement.
You must not ever drag race..... there is a reason why most nights are called "Test and Tune." How many Dyno's do you know of support more than 2000WHP? I don't care what you read on the internets, but the best tuning you can get out of your car is done in real world scenarios, and how the car is being used. A dyno tune isnt going to do **** for a top fuel dragster or an F1 Car. Its great for initial dial in, but after that, the tweaks need to be made on pavement.
YouTube - 2000 HP Mustang Dyno
YouTube - Big Daddy's 2000+ HP Twin Turbo Mustang on the Dyno at BDP
YouTube - 2000hp Viper
YouTube - dragster dyno
That was from a quick search. But yes top fuel eliminators and nitro funny cars don't tune on the dyno. They tune on test and tune nights and have to alter their tune for elevation changes, temp, humidity, and whether or not the drivers mom is on her period. Then keep a record of tunes that work in certain situations. Any load varying dyno such as a Mustang Dyno or a dyna pack dyno is going to be able to vary load and hit every single cell in all of the tables. Even cells that you'll never be able to log sufficiently on the street. And these cells actually do effect how the car drives since they include what happens the instant you start to push the clutch in while still at 30% load, good luck getting 50 hits in that cell on the street. Then all that would be left to do is corrections for temperature (which is what the op needs and theres tables for that and he should really send something into trifecta and tell them to tune only the iat related tables). Whats better is that a dyna pack dyno you take your wheels off and bolt the dyno directly to the hubs of your car, no chance for wheel spin.
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From: Alberta
That's insane, but he knows that the climate where I live can differ 60C from summer to winter and says it's fine and is running like the 'stock' tune should. I sent the logs to Ryan at the email you provided, if he looks at them I'll let you know what he says. Pretty confident he'll say the same thing as Vince did if the do other work together.
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From: Dixon, IL
You must not ever drag race..... there is a reason why most nights are called "Test and Tune." How many Dyno's do you know of support more than 2000WHP? I don't care what you read on the internets, but the best tuning you can get out of your car is done in real world scenarios, and how the car is being used. A dyno tune isnt going to do **** for a top fuel dragster or an F1 Car. Its great for initial dial in, but after that, the tweaks need to be made on pavement.
and how many top fuels/nitro funny cars you see at test and tune? none because they are at the main pro events... i cant recall the last time i saw a nitro car test and tune, short of a few going for their NHRA license. they tune based on qualifying runs or like stated, what worked before.
if you dont want maximum potential out of your car, then fine, street tune it. Just know it wont be the best you can do. You want as precise of a tune as you can get, dyno tune it. safest and easiest place and its a legal place to do 100+
thing is with our cars. they can get by on a street tune. its not the best but they run and race on a street tune without blowing up. nobody is saying they will.
Last edited by Vink70; Mar 4, 2011 at 08:37 PM.
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well according to the video's LOTS.
and how many top fuels/nitro funny cars you see at test and tune? none because they are at the main pro events... i cant recall the last time i saw a nitro car test and tune, short of a few going for their NHRA license. they tune based on qualifying runs or like stated, what worked before.
if you dont want maximum potential out of your car, then fine, street tune it. Just know it wont be the best you can do. You want as precise of a tune as you can get, dyno tune it. safest and easiest place and its a legal place to do 100+
thing is with our cars. they can get by on a street tune. its not the best but they run and race on a street tune without blowing up. nobody is saying they will.
and how many top fuels/nitro funny cars you see at test and tune? none because they are at the main pro events... i cant recall the last time i saw a nitro car test and tune, short of a few going for their NHRA license. they tune based on qualifying runs or like stated, what worked before.
if you dont want maximum potential out of your car, then fine, street tune it. Just know it wont be the best you can do. You want as precise of a tune as you can get, dyno tune it. safest and easiest place and its a legal place to do 100+
thing is with our cars. they can get by on a street tune. its not the best but they run and race on a street tune without blowing up. nobody is saying they will.
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From: Dixon, IL
on a dyno you can hit every cell in the table any time without having to speed or worry about traffic or crashing.
show me another place where you can do that to tune...
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1. NHJK - I hardly ever post on this site anymore because of what happened to you. Everyone on here seems to think they know everything about the Ecotecs, then when they ask for help they tell you that you must be wrong, even though they were asking for help in the first place. The only reason I am even posting is because you did. 
2. drewbroo - you realize that you basically said that NHJK doesn't know what he is talking about. NHJK is one of the .1% of Ecotec owners who actually DOES know more than everyone else about these cars. When he offers advice you would be wise to heed it.
3. The problem could be a bad plug or bad tune or even a bad coil pack, but you have to do some troubleshooting to determine if the plug or coil is bad. Also, if you tune a car in the summer it is hard to know how it will react in the winter. The LNF is really touchy with temperature changes and the really cold weather causes combustion issues with the DI. If you get the tune adjusted for winter, now it may not be ideal for summer anymore. While Trifecta isn't exactly a "canned" tune, you still have to send logs to him if you expect him to make changes. Also, nobody really knows what kinds of changes Vince makes since nobody can see any of his tunes. There is a HPT + Trifecta tune, but it isn't the same a true Trifecta tune. The HPT + Trifecta tune is designed so HPT tuners can have Vince change a few of the tables that HPT does not give us access to (i.e. Wastegate control and fuel tables).
2. drewbroo - you realize that you basically said that NHJK doesn't know what he is talking about. NHJK is one of the .1% of Ecotec owners who actually DOES know more than everyone else about these cars. When he offers advice you would be wise to heed it.
3. The problem could be a bad plug or bad tune or even a bad coil pack, but you have to do some troubleshooting to determine if the plug or coil is bad. Also, if you tune a car in the summer it is hard to know how it will react in the winter. The LNF is really touchy with temperature changes and the really cold weather causes combustion issues with the DI. If you get the tune adjusted for winter, now it may not be ideal for summer anymore. While Trifecta isn't exactly a "canned" tune, you still have to send logs to him if you expect him to make changes. Also, nobody really knows what kinds of changes Vince makes since nobody can see any of his tunes. There is a HPT + Trifecta tune, but it isn't the same a true Trifecta tune. The HPT + Trifecta tune is designed so HPT tuners can have Vince change a few of the tables that HPT does not give us access to (i.e. Wastegate control and fuel tables).
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From: NY
1. NHJK - I hardly ever post on this site anymore because of what happened to you. Everyone on here seems to think they know everything about the Ecotecs, then when they ask for help they tell you that you must be wrong, even though they were asking for help in the first place. The only reason I am even posting is because you did.
2. drewbroo - you realize that you basically said that NHJK doesn't know what he is talking about. NHJK is one of the .1% of Ecotec owners who actually DOES know more than everyone else about these cars. When he offers advice you would be wise to heed it.
3. The problem could be a bad plug or bad tune or even a bad coil pack, but you have to do some troubleshooting to determine if the plug or coil is bad. Also, if you tune a car in the summer it is hard to know how it will react in the winter. The LNF is really touchy with temperature changes and the really cold weather causes combustion issues with the DI. If you get the tune adjusted for winter, now it may not be ideal for summer anymore. While Trifecta isn't exactly a "canned" tune, you still have to send logs to him if you expect him to make changes. Also, nobody really knows what kinds of changes Vince makes since nobody can see any of his tunes. There is a HPT + Trifecta tune, but it isn't the same a true Trifecta tune. The HPT + Trifecta tune is designed so HPT tuners can have Vince change a few of the tables that HPT does not give us access to (i.e. Wastegate control and fuel tables).
2. drewbroo - you realize that you basically said that NHJK doesn't know what he is talking about. NHJK is one of the .1% of Ecotec owners who actually DOES know more than everyone else about these cars. When he offers advice you would be wise to heed it.
3. The problem could be a bad plug or bad tune or even a bad coil pack, but you have to do some troubleshooting to determine if the plug or coil is bad. Also, if you tune a car in the summer it is hard to know how it will react in the winter. The LNF is really touchy with temperature changes and the really cold weather causes combustion issues with the DI. If you get the tune adjusted for winter, now it may not be ideal for summer anymore. While Trifecta isn't exactly a "canned" tune, you still have to send logs to him if you expect him to make changes. Also, nobody really knows what kinds of changes Vince makes since nobody can see any of his tunes. There is a HPT + Trifecta tune, but it isn't the same a true Trifecta tune. The HPT + Trifecta tune is designed so HPT tuners can have Vince change a few of the tables that HPT does not give us access to (i.e. Wastegate control and fuel tables).
The rest of you are dopes and should be ashamed of yourselves.
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From: Alberta
well according to the video's LOTS.
and how many top fuels/nitro funny cars you see at test and tune? none because they are at the main pro events... i cant recall the last time i saw a nitro car test and tune, short of a few going for their NHRA license. they tune based on qualifying runs or like stated, what worked before.
if you dont want maximum potential out of your car, then fine, street tune it. Just know it wont be the best you can do. You want as precise of a tune as you can get, dyno tune it. safest and easiest place and its a legal place to do 100+
thing is with our cars. they can get by on a street tune. its not the best but they run and race on a street tune without blowing up. nobody is saying they will.
and how many top fuels/nitro funny cars you see at test and tune? none because they are at the main pro events... i cant recall the last time i saw a nitro car test and tune, short of a few going for their NHRA license. they tune based on qualifying runs or like stated, what worked before.
if you dont want maximum potential out of your car, then fine, street tune it. Just know it wont be the best you can do. You want as precise of a tune as you can get, dyno tune it. safest and easiest place and its a legal place to do 100+
thing is with our cars. they can get by on a street tune. its not the best but they run and race on a street tune without blowing up. nobody is saying they will.
I agree that Dyno tuning is the SAFEST way to tune a car. But I disagree that its the most accurate way to tune a car. As I said in my earlier post, its a great way to dial in a baseline, but to fine tune, you need pavement. (I prefer the drag strip, but that's me)
and the 2000+ WHP sustaining dyno's are around, but they are hard to find. I am sure its easy to find video's of them, but find one local to me in Tucson... you won't. Find one near Tampa FL..... I couldn't find one near tampa
Still send a log in for adjustments.... there are always updates to the tunes
Last edited by drewbroo; Mar 5, 2011 at 12:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Alberta
I usually see them every night I am on test and tune... they also have private T&T drag days just for the Pro's at SIR/FIR.
I agree that Dyno tuning is the SAFEST way to tune a car. But I disagree that its the most accurate way to tune a car. As I said in my earlier post, its a great way to dial in a baseline, but to fine tune, you need pavement. (I prefer the drag strip, but that's me)
and the 2000+ WHP sustaining dyno's are around, but they are hard to find. I am sure its easy to find video's of them, but find one local to me in Tucson... you won't. Find one near Tampa FL..... I couldn't find one near tampa
Still send a log in for adjustments.... there are always updates to the tunes
I agree that Dyno tuning is the SAFEST way to tune a car. But I disagree that its the most accurate way to tune a car. As I said in my earlier post, its a great way to dial in a baseline, but to fine tune, you need pavement. (I prefer the drag strip, but that's me)
and the 2000+ WHP sustaining dyno's are around, but they are hard to find. I am sure its easy to find video's of them, but find one local to me in Tucson... you won't. Find one near Tampa FL..... I couldn't find one near tampa
Still send a log in for adjustments.... there are always updates to the tunes
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From: Dixon, IL
This is going to end up like your typical xbox360 vs ps3 debate. its all going to be personal opinion.
however...
This sums up my opinion on it. Coming from one of the most reputable shops in the Chicago land area. (Home Page)
As far as my feelings on street vs. dyno tuning, they go a little like this...
With our dyno, the only need to really street tune a car is if it's full time AWD. I really don't like driving around other people's cars on the street, looking at the scanner making sure I'm able to collect all the data I need. Last thing I want is to have to explain to police why I was speeding (if not worse), then have them see wires strung from under the car into the car and have to explain what their for. Most might know what an 02 senor is, but as soon as you say wideband, you're probably going to loose them. Some officers might find it amussing, but I really don't want to have to find out which ones are cool.
If i didn't have confidence in our dyno and it's loading abilities, I wouldn't spend 2-3hrs calibrating the VE tables and MAF tables before I even get into WOT. There was a reason we spent as much as we did on our dyno as opposed to getting a less expensive inertia one. For instance the car I was working on yesterday, was only .3 seconds, and .5mph off of it's actual 1/4 track time and the 1/4 simulation test that was performed on our dyno. Considering the 60' time was .3 seconds off (in the same direction) as well, you can be assured that the real time loading capabilites of the dyno, and the loads a vehicle sees on the street or track, are in fact very similar.
I have never seen a street tune out preform a dyno tune, nor have I ever seen a dyno tune hurt the drivability and performance of a car. I have seen street tuned cars run 12.2:1 AFR at WOT, and I have seen mail order tunes run 13.8:1 AFR at WOT. No two cars are the same, and that's why you should treat each one differently. One thing that is a must, no matter how you're tuning a vehicle is having a properly calibrated wideband, with one of those it's possible to tune on the moon (probably). That and somebody that knows what data to collect, and where to go in order to make the changes needed.
__________________
Mike Hornback @ Straightline Performance
Not to mention these guys... im sure some of you have heard of them.... AMS.... They dynotune as well.
http://www.amsperformance.com/dynotuning.php
however...
This sums up my opinion on it. Coming from one of the most reputable shops in the Chicago land area. (Home Page)
As far as my feelings on street vs. dyno tuning, they go a little like this...
With our dyno, the only need to really street tune a car is if it's full time AWD. I really don't like driving around other people's cars on the street, looking at the scanner making sure I'm able to collect all the data I need. Last thing I want is to have to explain to police why I was speeding (if not worse), then have them see wires strung from under the car into the car and have to explain what their for. Most might know what an 02 senor is, but as soon as you say wideband, you're probably going to loose them. Some officers might find it amussing, but I really don't want to have to find out which ones are cool.
If i didn't have confidence in our dyno and it's loading abilities, I wouldn't spend 2-3hrs calibrating the VE tables and MAF tables before I even get into WOT. There was a reason we spent as much as we did on our dyno as opposed to getting a less expensive inertia one. For instance the car I was working on yesterday, was only .3 seconds, and .5mph off of it's actual 1/4 track time and the 1/4 simulation test that was performed on our dyno. Considering the 60' time was .3 seconds off (in the same direction) as well, you can be assured that the real time loading capabilites of the dyno, and the loads a vehicle sees on the street or track, are in fact very similar.
I have never seen a street tune out preform a dyno tune, nor have I ever seen a dyno tune hurt the drivability and performance of a car. I have seen street tuned cars run 12.2:1 AFR at WOT, and I have seen mail order tunes run 13.8:1 AFR at WOT. No two cars are the same, and that's why you should treat each one differently. One thing that is a must, no matter how you're tuning a vehicle is having a properly calibrated wideband, with one of those it's possible to tune on the moon (probably). That and somebody that knows what data to collect, and where to go in order to make the changes needed.
__________________
Mike Hornback @ Straightline Performance
Not to mention these guys... im sure some of you have heard of them.... AMS.... They dynotune as well.
http://www.amsperformance.com/dynotuning.php
Last edited by Vink70; Mar 5, 2011 at 01:59 AM.
Mines was doing something similar, after doing a few diagnostics it came to be a bad Spark Plug, if your running on the trifecta tune constantly chances are you will go through spark plugs allot so keep that in mind.
I already did and he said they're looking good according to him. Like I said I'm not going to worry about it if he says the car is running exactly the way it should be. Not sure why people keep suggesting issues with the tune when i sent in logs and got the ok status on the tune, I'll be changinf plugs when I get a chance, cleaning my maf and running this tank of gas to almost empty then I'll fill on 94 octane again. I was expecting something mechanical before the tune, since i had no issues with it this winter till a week ago.
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