Either way your gonna need a trans eventually. I say bigger bolt on turbo and just keep the boost lower and ramp it in. Enjoy having power till 6.5-7 k rpm instead of till 5.5 k.

 

That price is not the most realistic number. Have you ever built a motor before? Who is going to do your motor work? Price for Gaskets/seals, none reusable/stretch bolts, break in oils and break in oil changes, possible machine shop work and time spent pulling the motor in and out of your car? Is this Rotating assembly going to be balanced and done correctly? Your price doesn't reflect a realistic number.

You will spend $2500+ for little to no power gains. The K04 will not benefit from the fuel lobe, springs, or pistons. The cams will only help out from your mid range pull until your your turbo runs of breath.

A full bolt on Stock Motor K04 will be just as fast a full bolt on built motor with a stock K04 for the most part.

Its not a debate its logical.

 

CORRECT! I was gonna add to that price. I seen the price of my build add up from what I thought it would cost in the beginning...With that list, he's more realistically looking at about 3k

 

I know 2500+ is if he did all the work himself.

 

^^
X...... OP, just because you have a built motor, it doesn't mean that it will not blow up on you with a bad tune, and you still need to push air into your motor to make the power.

big turbo kit/supporting mods and GOOD TUNER > built motor and stock ko4. IMO.

 

Yea I hear ya. My cost went up quite a bit because Performance Autowerks is doing the build for me. With my schedule my car wouldn't be done for 6-8 months haha. Full time student/athlete doesn't leave much time for wrenching haha. But **** sales tax here in Illinois alone will kill you having someone do it! lol

 

So... I went this route. I've got a built motor, with head and cams, and am currently on the K04 still. I'm considering a bigger turbo, but I had a tranny go several months ago, so I'm taking it easy on my new-current tranny until I decide to swap the tranny for something stronger or do a tranny-turbo combo.

I knew I wanted to keep the car for a while, so it was worth it to me to build it right once (you could say over-build it) than potentially rebuild it several times.

 

A basically everyone is saying a big turbo is good for big numbers and quarter mile times while building the motor is more of a reliability thing?

 

Yeah. You don't magically move more air or make more power just because it was built by a guy in a garage versus a guy in a factory.

In order to make more power, you have to more more air. The easiest way to do this in a forced induction application like ours is to increase boost to a point or increase the size of the turbo. We've kinda maxed out on the boost pressure we can raise to efficiently, so the next step would be a bigger turbo.

 

Yes everyone but me. Stock motor, bigger turbo, less boost, more reliable.

 

Got ya. So building the motor and adding cams, pistons, rods, and what not really won't allow more power compared swapping out the turbo.

I've honestly been tossing up the idea of a turbo upgrade for next summer, but most people I've talked to about say about building the motor up a bit before just throwing the bigger turbo on. In a way it makes more sense, but from what I've been reading up on is that our internals are actually reliable to 400-420whp. That is actually about what I'd shoot for because it appears to be easily obtainable for 2grand or so.

 

So with a bigger turbo and less boost you can produce the same amount of power as a k04 boosting 23-24lbs, if not more?

 

Yes it's not about psi it's about airflow. Big turbo flows more air at less psi typically.

 

"Allow" from a safety or performance standpoint?

In a naturally aspirated car, the cams are where it's at, as it increases the airflow through the engine to allow for more power. You're correct from a power standpoint though, the cams are a small gain in our case compared to turning up boost or using a larger turbo.

As far as safety, honestly, the main part(s) at stake are probably the pistons. Some people have piston ring gaps that are too small for much more than stock/GMS1 levels or power. The stock pistons are also easier to break than the currently offered forged pistons in general. The rings and lands are also set up differently on the Wisecos than the stock pistons. The next thing would probably be the valve springs. If you're wanting to rev higher to take further advantage of a larger turbo then you'll probably want to swap them out.

Yes. With a larger turbo, more power can be had at lower boost levels in general, due to increased efficiency.

 

lol, this went south a bit, but thanks so far for all the replies fellas

And as far as NME, don't try and take shots at me man, i'm 32 years old, not a kid...yes i have done plenty of work on cars since i was 16, and of course i know there is added expenses with any repair or upgrade than just the parts. Even swapping out the turbo, you need to buy new fittings, gaskets and whatever else comes up if you are doing it yourself, and if you are green to working on cars then "labor" for the install...

I get the rest of your reply though, thanks

 

I would have posted the same exact thing.

 

When did I take a shot at you? I asked simple valid questions.

 

obviously, through a computer i cant tell sarcasm, tone or anything, but it seemed through how it was said, you were taking a shot...no worries...
Anyways, so basically you guys think that not only will a built motor not be close, then it wouldnt make any power at all over a stock motor/stock turbo???
zzp, TERm2, and James need to chime in because I think they have the real numbers so we all know...if i'm wrong, fine, but i wanna see the facts that a built motor/stock turbo is not that good.

 

Did you not see cmiller's post? I need to stop reading your posts they stress me out.

 

not to be stupid but who makes upgraded valves for the LNF?

 

why you stressed frog?...lol, i love a good debate, even if i'm wrong, as long as i get the info i need and we all learn and people actually get to use their brains a bit...haha

 

Is this a joke? Building a motor stronger wont give it more hp on stock turbo, it will just make it stronger. Maybe a bit more power, but in no way will make as much power on 93 as a bigger turbo on stock internals will. How do u figure ur gonna make over 400whp on stock turbo with building internals? Do u guys even read any of the other threads where people have done both??

 

nobody, including me, said that 400whp is attainable on stock turbo, but i did say 370whp. and zzp cams give more power along with the other parts. but nobody has shown any real info other than opinions

 

If you have the same displacement with the same amount of air flow, same amount of fuel and same compression ratio you will make the exact same amount of power no matter how much stronger the engine is built.

 

Plenty of threads guys getting over 400whp with zfr or other turbos on stock motor