pretty clear

 

too bad you're not in NY, I have an s/c car I could play with on the dyno, and I can assure you, I'll make more power with the meth kit and a 2.6 pulley. hell I'd even stay at a 2.7.

 

and i dont even have hptuners.. lol..

 

I would love to see someone take that challenge...

But all you care about is peak HP #. TQ curve and track times are better, IMO.

 

I really hope it takes less than the 3 years this took us in the 3800 market...

 

Exactly.. whats the point of having 290 hp if you reach it at 6900 rpm...

 

if i felt like going to michigan i would take this up.

 

i have family up there.. could be a nice little trip.. lol..

 

No point, it's their dyno, they will win.

 

im sure they will have some stipulation that will make it near impossible to beat them...

Its funny they still havent proved anything... its like were completely wrong and what ever ZZP says is right no matter what has been proved / currently being proven.

 

also true. dyno games are not fun.

 

Meaning what? We have a secret dyno that knows when the car is running meth? You can see everything that's done, be in the dyno room, watch every detail of the work, have what were doing explained exactly to you, watch the changes made to the file, help strap down the car, even click the F'ing buttons on the computer if it makes you feel better. Do you really think the ZZP team is stupid? Do you think we don't know what we'll win? Of course we know we'll win, we've had this debate before. I told you, 3 years of it. I would think a smart person would just go to a site where this has all been discussed before. Instead we're arguing about a movie that I watched for 3 years repeatedly and you guys haven't seen. We're sitting here debating how it ends and people wonder why I'm confident in betting a grand on the ending. LOL, come on. You think we're the #1 vendor in the 3800 market holding numerous world records out of luck? You think ZZP doesn't want to sell parts? Do you have any idea how easy it would be for ZZP to just make or start selling someone else's injection kit? EVERYONE here is under the impression that they are adding a great mod to their car. ZZP has nothing to gain and everything to lose by steering you away from a part we could be selling. Doesn't it make anyone the least bit curious as to why we would not sell something everyone wants and instead say there is a better way that doesn't cost any money?

LOL you guys are ridiculous.

To solve an arguement I offer up a grand and now all I here is:
-man, I wish I felt like driving my car
-they have a secret dyno that only shows high numbers without water injection
-I live too far away
-It's not about HP, it's about track times

This is just classic.

 

youve offerd this 1000 dollars before... nothing new...

not everyone can just drop what they do, leave work for a few days, and go and drive to a dyno to a shop they dont even like to try and prove something...

 

It was always about track times?

You guys only care about peak HP# on the rollers. Hence why you love your "larger pulleys".

Higher peak HP# = still the slower car.

To make this $1,000 really worth it, this should be done at a track. Same car, you pick your driver, we have ours. Do whatever you want to do, we do whatever we want to do.

As a very educated person once said (sorry for stealing this )

air flow = power.

cfm=blower RPM

thus blower RPM = power.

make 10, rob 8 via drag, still up 2

 

I"m not driving to mich to prove a point I already know the answer too.
Hell come out here, I have a private dyno we could use for the whole weekend. You got the *****, I got the place and the time. If not, please stop before you destroy what little customer base you have here.
Track times and dyno #'s are fine either way.

 

I think the best way to fix the smaller pulley problem would be to use a 2.5, but still limit the boost to 16 or 18 psi... get that fast torque build up, then allow for higher timing with less heat to deal with.

 

heat would stay the same roughly. ur still spinning the blower at the same speed.

 

but its not the spinning thats creating the heat... its the pressure..

 

i was under the impression it was the blower speed not the pressure.

 

The $1000 isn't going to ride on a variable like driver or launch. That doesn't even make sense. We're debating on the addition of power, not the winner of a 1/4 mile race that changes every time you run the car.

This very educated person failed to tell you that:
air flow only equals power if you're getting more oxygen in the motor and the airflow doesn't come at a penalty and you have something to mix with the air to ignite.

they also didn't tell you that blower rpm doesn't always equal cfm and that at some point, cfm and drop with increase blower rpm on a roots blower which is running a higher and higher psi as the cfm increases.

they also failed to tell you that as blower rpm increase, the power to drive it increases exponentially when pushing into a fixed displacement engine. This means that eventually it requires more power to spin the blower than you can get from the additional air.

I'm not sure who this 'very educated' person was but they don't seem very educated to me.
Actually it's both and ZZP has a supercharger dyno that gives us exact numbers on that but you can also read about it on Magnuson's site: http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp62.htm

 

Faster blower speed is creating more pressure, which is creating more heat..

if the blower isnt creating pressure (but still spinning).. it isnt creating anymore heat.

 

Sad thing is the people that would take you up on this..are the people without M62's anymore.

Tho his challenge is fair..they lose u get $1000 you lose you have to pay dyno time...what is the rate for dyno time/hr at zzp.

You tune it to your liking with meth and pulley, zooomer gets shot with just the same gas, no meth and his choice of pulley larger then what your currently have on it in your runs. Did i get that right?

Tho I love being right...thats what I take the silence to mean...

 

Exactly. We charge $25 for a strap down and $30/pull. If you win, you don't pay anything and you get a grand.
If you lose, you pay for the strap down and every pull you made while tuning your meth setup. Either way you don't pay for the pulls ZZP makes. If you think about it, you have nothing to lose. It's just a normal day to the dyno for tuning. And for the record, yes I've don't this before in the Grand Prix and with Cobalts. The Cobalt customer didn't know about the $1000 challenge but he came in for tuning with meth and mods and we asked if we could try it w/o the meth and a larger pulley. He helped with the dynos and had no bias, just curiosity. Once completed he asked why his kit wasn't doing what it was claimed and how the car could be making more power with a larger pulley. We explained that they don't work unless you use nearly all alcohol and he left with the larger pulley, both dyno charts and a tuned car. (you didn't think I'd bet a grand w/o knowing the outcome did you)

When we did this in the Grand Prix market and results came back, the forums would say "you guys didn't tune it right" or "you should have added more timing or leaned the car out more" or "that's just his car, most will gain power" or some other excuse you commonly read. But after 3 years the guys running WI were still slow and still talking about tuning and the guys who slowly started taking ZZP advice kept getting faster and faster. Eventually the entire forum converted and meth injection vendors were boo'd out of the market completely.

Let me save you guy some time. You can just cut and past from this thread 7 years ago. I was a lone voice saying that WI doesn't work and the entire forum was against me: http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...ode=&s=#119190

How about I just grab a thread from each year after that and you can save the typing to see how a community transforms with some knowledge. That way I don't have to argue for the next 3 years.

 

yes.. hit the nail on the head.

 

So what is the point of having all this "power" if it can't get you down the track faster? E-Peen dyno queen numbers?

If the car is making more power, it will show at the track.