-The theories remain the same regardless of which blower graph is show. M45, M112, etc. It doesn't matter as the characteristics of them are all the same.

-The RPM graph done on the redline forums is pretty cool. I'm not sure why it stops at 7k rpm though. Most LSJs make peak power around 7k unless they are over pullied or have too little timing. Is there a reason to shift before 7k I'm not aware of?

-Also to note. Whatever 'gain' you got from spraying a solution into your engine with a 'meth kit', you would ultimately have exactly the same gains by pouring the same amount of washer fluid in your gas tank. In other words if your jets are setup to add 1 part washer fluid per 15 parts fuel, you could add one gallon of the blue to a 15 gal tank of gas, tune it, and have exactly the same results. The problem would be that in non boosted conditions the car would not run very well due to water reducing the performance of the engine. And understanding this will help you understand why water reduces performance in any circumstance (compared to an ideal build). Furthermore adding methanol to the gas tank & retuning, would not cause the car to run bad.

-I was a Ron Paul supporter in the primary elections. He's very against the bailouts currently taking place for those that follow politics. His remarks made stated that when you tax successful companies and give money to failing companies you punish success and reward failure. Thus in the long run, then entire group suffers. Much in the same way, we have people hysterically mocking ZZP and literally telling us to "go away" simply for presenting evidence that a concept does not work. By telling people with opposing ideas to 'go away' you are trying to stifle new ideas and make sure that the old ones never get challenged. In this regard the entire community suffers because an honest exchange of ideas and theories never takes place in an unbiased fashion. Many people, including some who voiced it in this thread, stated "I just bought it because everyone said to get it". This isn't always a good reason to make decisions. I read an article recently how people often make decisions they know are wrong or without thinking about them because the majority is moving in that direction. As it applies here, mocking people who disagree stifles the chance of people asking honest questions or daring to disagree. Who wants to post a question or fact when they'll be bombarded with 20 forum members telling them they are stupid? Not many. That is not a good environment for learning which should be the goal of this forum.

 

I told you to go away because me, and im sure a couple of other people, are just tired of seeing you post.

 

Thats why most kits are maf or map activated so it is controlled and easily tuneable.

 

Yes, most kits only spray water when the motor is under high load. This prevents it from dying out and reduces the HP loss associated with putting water in your engine. Your point further shows the results of why water isn't good for your engine's power output.
You have posted 1645 times, I have posted less than 400 and most of my posts relate to group buys and product questions.
06black has over 13,500 posts, WSFrazier nearly 4800 and Area47 nearly twenty thousand posts!
What gives you the right to tell me to leave this forum because you don't like what I'm saying? Honestly, you can't just tell people to go away when they disagree with you any more than people can run you out of the forum for their whims. In fact comments like yours get threads locked and change the forum from a place of information exchanges to Ebitching and drama. Telling someone to go away serves absollutely no purpose what-so-ever other than cuasing fights.

 

This is photoshopped but I did give that day.



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Although some people say that you are driving away customers I do not believe that is the case. There a many people who are very eager to see your results who have not spoken up with their support. Like most forums this one is full of circle jerking leg humpers. So some people are afraid to show support in fear of standing out against the crowd.

Much like your Ron Paul reference.

 

Its the fact that...

through 3 different threads in the last 2 weeks, you have came in, and said how you can make more power on a larger pulley... we went through 10 pages of arguing..

another thread got wayyyy off track about return fuel systems, on a turbo manifold page (which you guys started the argument that it wasnt needed, and went from there).. theres another 10 pages..

now on a new thread, that you have not posted in untill recently, you come in here, and start up with more larger pulley, 1000 challenge talk, and water injection...

If you want to get your point across, make your own thread.. stop coming in other peoples forums and starting arguments... You should just realize, that no one is listening, you obviously got it down that we havent changed our minds.. let it be...

I dont care if you post, thats you, i care about having the same damn arguments over and over in a thread that actually has nothing to do with what your arguing. Were just getting sick of it because you just come back to hit the horse one more time... The last thread, we went 2 and a half pages without you posting, infact, the subject was completely changed, then you come back, and start the same argument again, after it was dropped.

 

Ummm what, didn't know 3 psi was high load

 

Many people email us or send PMs if they support us but do not wish to interact in the often hostile environment of the forum.

 

This thread is going to get locked if we keep throwing those names up.

 

I still have not figured out why you are in this thread...

 

dont care.

 

I'm going to steal a quote from Tropic Thunder. A lot of what the people from ZZP are saying is...

"That's physics. It's inevitable."

Unfortunately these blowers suffer from the same thermal dynamic laws as everything else on this planet. As I previously broke down using Eaton's own graphs, everything is relative and proportional.

 

so anywho, whats the advantages of a 2.6?

 

In short, none really with the M62. It's just too fair out of its efficiency range.

 

Water in the gasoline does not produce an hp loss. It can actually produce a gain when tuned/designed for it. A gain was noted on a 15% water 85% 87 octane pump gas mixture. See SAE tech article 841399 before posting again please. Also 820314 makes note that when LARGE amounts of water relative to airflow (like 50/50) are injected it hurts performance but low amounts do not and when compensated for by compression ratio or airflow gains can be realized. This specific paper does not dive deeply into that topic as its main focus is on its effect on emissions. 2007-01-2648 is a 2.0L DI turbocharged 4 cylinder that runs on e100 and is then tested on exxh blends where the xx is the % of ethanol and the rest is water. They had to increase the timing to maintain the power levels but noted that because of the advantages of water there was more room for increased compression and potential for overall increase in output on the fuels with more water in them

These papers talk about its ability to remove heat from the charge, increase the effective octane level, and lower combustion temperature among others. I have my proof where is yours?

 

Right from the article.

The power output was increased on the order of 3.8 to 14% when the base fuel containing 5 to 15% water was used. These preliminary performance data conducted with a single cylinder engine suggest that the water-gasoline fuel compares favorably both in mean effective pressure and fuel consumption to that of a gasoline fueled engine.

 

I once read that much of the Methanol/water injection gets "vaporized" by the supercharger, supercharger rotors, intake manifold and laminova cores.

I know that it does not actually get vaporized but could it be true that much of it would get "absorbed" or the cooling effects "transfered" to those objects?

So could it be possible that there could be hp gains by running a small spray of just water as long most of that water was not making it into the engine but instead being used to cool the supercharger and Intake manifold.

In one of my unsuccessful tests of water/meth injection I was running 0 degree blue washer fluid with a 5gph nozzle. The stuff I was using was < 1% methanol but I didn't know if at first.

While I was logging I would see no change in my afr but when I was done with several WOT run I would open my hood and and my charger would be cold. Not cool but cold. I couldnt figure out why I was seeing the cooling benefit from the water/meth injection but not the fueling benefit until I looked up the MSDS info for the 0 degree and found that it was <1% methanol.

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/msds_peak_wash_0.pdf

So I switched to -20 degree washer fluid which is 33% methanol and then noticed the changes to my afr.

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/msds/m...h_minus_20.pdf

So...

Could it be possible to see HP gains by running straight water with a 1gph nozzle just for the cooling benefit of the SC and IM?

 

Someone argued that same point before, but it was on a larger engine with a hell of a lot more heat... so the gains were probly on a larger scale. So Once the lsj gets compensated for it.. who knows what will happen...

 

Does anyone in this thread that has water/meth injection experience drag race at all?

I would like to know if quicker ET's are achievable by running water/methanol injection. Are you quicker with or without it? Timeslips? How much?

Thank you

 

a few pages back someone was running a best time of 14.xx, used meth and hit high 13s...

 

wrong.

hi.
which pulley will put out more torque, and a broader power band?

thats right kids. the 2.6

 

I race my car quite a bit, and try doing 9 back to back runs in an event without the meth on a smaller pullied car and watch your et's drop from run to run.

 

Okay I have first hand experience in seeing what a 2.5" setup will do with a Ported Blower and full cooling mods/meth and full bolt-ons. Can you say 280whp/280wtq, this is a tune for a 2.8 setup. Car ******* pulled like crazy....It would have easily made 300whp safe if it would have been tuned in time, the car blew because it was running to RICH!. Also another car here in st.louis was running close to 300whp with a 2.5 setup, ran 12.9'S@110-111 on street tires. Smaller pulleys make better numbers but you have to pay the price to make bigger numbers..... alot of us in the Missouri area know this.