Hadn't heard anything about this until a friend mentioned it to me the other day...

Has anyone done this?

I was going to run just coolant and water wetter but if alcohol is better I'll do that. Only concern that I know of could potentially be the seals inside the pump itself...

Help me out guys, I'm pretty curious. If nobody has done it I may just try it out and see so everyone knows...

 

i havent heard this one yet. if u want to burn to death in a crash if the alcohol ever caught fire go nuts

 

im pretty sure alcohol has a lower specific heat than water. Just run water..

 

you mean like Jack Daniels or something like a port? I'd got with a nice ruby port.

Water is the best coolant since it carries the most heat away. Things like propylene glycol have a higher vapor point so can absorb heat at higher temps. Alcohol has a lower vapor point so is more likely to boil in a coolant system. You dont want any gas or vapor in a coolant system because it does not absorb the heat like water.

Plus alcohol is pretty corrosive. I doubt the inside of a radiator would last that long with alcohol.

 

Well my buddy said like rubbing alcohol... Idk anything about the chemistry behind that garbage lol

 

FYI rubbing alcohol boils at 180* F.. soo.. it'll boil at operating temps

 

Send me a picture of the fire.

 

Send me a picture of the fire.

 

lmao.. imagine getting pulled over by the cops for some other reason and then the cop says "sir why do i smell jack daniels...have you been drinking?" "no sir, i use jack daniels as coolant".....cop would just walk away and not even give you a ticket for your infraction due to the amount of pitty for you.

 

LOL

 

LOL at supermoderator double posting

 

F
a
i
l

 

x2

It would be like removing 1/3 of your current coolant. Bad idea. Find a fluid with a higher specific heat that water which is not corrosive to parts and doesn't boil/freeze. you'll get an A+ in physics. I can tell you we're working on it but nothing so far...

 

I think it's apparent I'm not too knowledgable of the physics thus why I was asking everyone. I thought it was a bit strange when my friend said something, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know alcohol is flammable...

I've always wondered though how you could increase efficency. What kinds of fluids have you guys tried?

 

Actually, pour in some popov vodka, and crack three eggs into the radiator. Works wicked.

 

Alcohol will boil off at 145-175 F, if you remember our coolant temps can easily reach 210 F, so you'd basically just end up boiling off all of your coolant which will just escape out your breather tube and you'll be left with running zero coolant...

 

You should make an ethyl chloride injection system to replace water injection. I use the stuff at work and it seems like it would be a great charge cooler. It evaporates so quickly it freezes, but can be stored at room temp in a regular bottle. it's flammable too (it is used as a skin anesthetic for minor skin procedures in medicine).

 

I wonder if HPC had come up with something? Maybe I should call.

 

is its specfic heat higher than 4.184? if not...its not good. Fast evap time doesnt matter when it comes to injection systems. When you're injecting this stuff into several hundred degree combustion chambers, everything evaporates quickly

 

I wish I had ability to test something like that out. I know water works well because it takes a lot of energy (heat) to turn it into steam thus cooling the charge. I was thinking the ethyl chloride could cool the charge before it go to the chamber.

 

lololololololololol

 

YOu don't need to 'test' things, you figure this one out on paper. So far we've come up with an amazing fluid. Ammonia.
Not only is the specific heat higher than water but it's specific heat rises as the fluid temperature does. It's lighter than water which is good for performance. And it won't freeze.

There are issues tho. It's corrosive to aluminum, it's toxic and highly dangerous in high concentrations and it boils easily. We've overcome the issue of boiling with our option Z kit for the IC system and we have some things in the works for the corrosive nature to aluminum. There are some other issues we haven't overcome so it got shelved for now. Here's some of my notes:

Aqua ammonia is corrosive to copper, copper alloys, aluminum alloys and galvanized surfaces. Aqua ammonia is an excellent acid neutralizer. Its pH varies with concentration. Typical values are 11.7 at 1%, 12.2 at 5%, 12.4 at 10% and 13.5 at 30%.


Boiling point is at -28° F.

Freezing point is at -107.9° F; a white crystalline mass forms.

Critical temperature is at 270.3° F; ammonia exists as a vapor, regardless of pressure above this temperature.

Density of ammonia liquid is 42.57 pounds per cubic feet @ -28° F; ammonia liquid is lighter than water.

Density of ammonia vapor is .5970 pounds per cubic feet compared to air at atmospheric pressure and @ 32° F.

Volume: One (1) pound of ammonia vapor occupies a volume of 22.78 cubic feet at 32° F and atmospheric pressure. One (1) pound of ammonia vapor occupies a volume of 22.5 cubic feet and yields 45 cubic feet of dissociated gas at a ratio of 25% nitrogen and 75% hydrogen @ 70° F and atmospheric pressure.

Ammonia begins dissociating into nitrogen and hydrogen at approximately 850° F.

Storage & Handling


Ammonia is stored and transported as a liquid under pressure.

The pressure on the tank is the liquid pressure and remains the same whether the tank is 10% or 80% full.

The maximum filling level of an anhydrous ammonia tank is 85%.

Ammonia has a great affinity for water, so special care must be taken to keep the ammonia dry.

Flammability


Anhydrous ammonia is classified by the DOT as a non-flammable gas.

Ammonia vapor is flammable over a narrow range of 16% to 25% by volume in air and a strong ignition source must be present.

Compatibilities & Incompatibilities


Anhydrous ammonia is compatible with carbon steel and iron.

Anhydrous ammonia is not compatible with copper, brass, bronze, zinc or mercury. Ammonia corrodes copper and brass into a blue-green salt.

Ammonium Hydroxide (Aqua)


"Anhydrous" means without water.

When anhydrous ammonia gas is dissolved in water, the resulting material is ammonium hydroxide or aqua ammonia.

Amonia weighs 5.15 pounds per gallon at 60F getting lighter as it gets warmer (weighs 5.69 lbs @ -28F)
Water weighs 8.344 at 32F and gets a little lighter as it warms. 8.29 lbs @ 100F

Specific heat capacity of water is 1 (Btu/lb oF)
Ammonia, 32oF 1.1
Ammonia, 104oF 1.16
Ammonia, 176oF 1.29
Ammonia, 212oF 1.48
Ammonia, 238oF 1.61
Ethylene glycol
.56
Alcohol, ethyl 32oF (ethanol) 0.55
Alcohol, ethyl 104oF (methanol) 0.65

Gasoline 0.53


Flammable limits in air 16-25%
Ignition temperature 1204°F
Vapor pressure at 0°F 16 psi
Vapor pressure at 68°F 110 psi
Vapor pressure at 100°F 198 psi
One cubic foot of liquid at 60°F expands to 850 cubic foot of gas
You can go up to 34% ammonia at 68F


The specific heat capacity (symbol c or s, also called specific heat) of a substance is defined as heat capacity per unit mass. The SI unit for specific heat capacity is the joule per kilogram kelvin, the amount of heat energy (measured in joules) required to raise the temperature of one kilogram of the substance by one kelvin
Water is 4186 and aluminum is 900
Table below is based on weight:
Aluminium
solid 0.897
Water
liquid (25 °C) 4.1813
Ammonia
liquid 4.700
Gasoline
liquid 2.22
Ethanol
liquid 2.44
Copper
solid 0.385

 

1, minor note, specific heat is amount of joules needed to raise 1 gram, not 1 kilogram, by 1° kelvin/celcius. Thats why water's specific heat is 4.184, not 4184 as listed. This is all IIRC from my chemistry classes. I dont ever recall using it as kilograms, but always as grams, and i dont remember having to convert specific heats into the appropriate units.

2, if it is heat capacity per unit mass, and ammonia is lighter than water, perhaps water is still superior?
There will be more mass in any one system using water opposed to ammonia, effectively yielding a larger heat sink. Of course it has a lower specific heat, so this might be negated, but which factor wins out here? and by how much?

 

Good observation. I missed that. I guess you would then have to add more fluid to the system to achieve gains at the same system weight. I don't recall if we worked out the viscosity of ammonia and determined heat transfer ability and such either. The entire project is shelved right now but it's still fun to mess with the idea...

 

oh definitely. automotive theory is the best physics class i could hope for. Now i just need a school that teaches it...lol