Comparing ttr stop mounts to ottp rotated mounts
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Joined: 03-26-06
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From: Michigan
Thanks for being an outside eye and seeing this. The following is our previous post from #58 in this thread. We also are taking step-by-step pictures as we are making the TTR Front STOP mounts now. Proving the OP that they are not some "cast" items. They are machined from the following material:
One of the many 2" X 6" X 12 foot bars:
The ASM markings on the bar, 6061 T6 as stated:
One of the many 2" X 6" X 12 foot bars:
The ASM markings on the bar, 6061 T6 as stated:
I just want to see this discussion kept in focus. And hope that members contemplating a decision based on said info can read between the lines. As I see it, both companies offer a great product, with the only major discernible difference exposed thus far being poly vs. rubber and price. As far as I can see, those points aside, both products do what they advertise.
dont get too impatient S33 the testing wont happen over night. I explained in the thread, that the material showed to be alloy in a test at the scrap yard.
I said it was powdercoated; I didnt expect the tab to break easily, but we did that so we could look at the metal in its natural state. It looked like it was a casting. TTR say it is not. Take their word for it. They got hung up on it breaking off like that.
I dont care that the tab broke off easily or not, I just reported what we found. Just like I dont care about the torque it takes with a torque wrench to strip threads. GM mount bolts are made a specific way; in this case to properly clamp the mount to the subframe at a torque spec of about 37 ft lbs.
There are enough errors in the test procedure TTR used to strip the the thread out, its not worth discussing.
Once the (independent non destructive testing) lab is finished I will be happy to provide the results. We will be testing sway bars as well.
I started this thread to compare mounts, understanding that at the get go TTR denied that rotated mounts work. Then they produced these ones, that once I had some to compare sure look like a copy using poly inserts.
Frankly if I was concerned about what all this looks like, I would just provide the mounts to OTTP and leave it at that.
You a betting man? guess what the materials is? Lets see. Until then...
I said it was powdercoated; I didnt expect the tab to break easily, but we did that so we could look at the metal in its natural state. It looked like it was a casting. TTR say it is not. Take their word for it. They got hung up on it breaking off like that.
I dont care that the tab broke off easily or not, I just reported what we found. Just like I dont care about the torque it takes with a torque wrench to strip threads. GM mount bolts are made a specific way; in this case to properly clamp the mount to the subframe at a torque spec of about 37 ft lbs.
There are enough errors in the test procedure TTR used to strip the the thread out, its not worth discussing.
Once the (independent non destructive testing) lab is finished I will be happy to provide the results. We will be testing sway bars as well.
I started this thread to compare mounts, understanding that at the get go TTR denied that rotated mounts work. Then they produced these ones, that once I had some to compare sure look like a copy using poly inserts.
Frankly if I was concerned about what all this looks like, I would just provide the mounts to OTTP and leave it at that.
You a betting man? guess what the materials is? Lets see. Until then...
I really do want to see what the lab says, and understand that it won't be a fast process.
As to whether they copied your design, that's a legitimate point, and I can see where you would have animosity being that were the case. I just hope to see the blows being kept above the belt, and focused on what really matters.
Your work, and innovation speak for themselves
Am I a betting man, hells yeah. But I just don't have enough info here to do so. I'd hope TTR wasn't foolish enough to lie, with you holding the evidence, and the motive to expose it, like I said, I'm anxiously awaiting the results.
dont get too impatient S33 the testing wont happen over night. I explained in the thread, that the material showed to be alloy in a test at the scrap yard.
I said it was powdercoated; I didnt expect the tab to break easily, but we did that so we could look at the metal in its natural state. It looked like it was a casting. TTR say it is not. Take their word for it. They got hung up on it breaking off like that.
I dont care that the tab broke off easily or not, I just reported what we found. Just like I dont care about the torque it takes with a torque wrench to strip threads. GM mount bolts are made a specific way; in this case to properly clamp the mount to the subframe at a torque spec of about 37 ft lbs.
There are enough errors in the test procedure TTR used to strip the the thread out, its not worth discussing.
Once the (independent non destructive testing) lab is finished I will be happy to provide the results. We will be testing sway bars as well.
I started this thread to compare mounts, understanding that at the get go TTR denied that rotated mounts work. Then they produced these ones, that once I had some to compare sure look like a copy using poly inserts.
Frankly if I was concerned about what all this looks like, I would just provide the mounts to OTTP and leave it at that.
You a betting man? guess what the materials is? Lets see. Until then...
I said it was powdercoated; I didnt expect the tab to break easily, but we did that so we could look at the metal in its natural state. It looked like it was a casting. TTR say it is not. Take their word for it. They got hung up on it breaking off like that.
I dont care that the tab broke off easily or not, I just reported what we found. Just like I dont care about the torque it takes with a torque wrench to strip threads. GM mount bolts are made a specific way; in this case to properly clamp the mount to the subframe at a torque spec of about 37 ft lbs.
There are enough errors in the test procedure TTR used to strip the the thread out, its not worth discussing.
Once the (independent non destructive testing) lab is finished I will be happy to provide the results. We will be testing sway bars as well.
I started this thread to compare mounts, understanding that at the get go TTR denied that rotated mounts work. Then they produced these ones, that once I had some to compare sure look like a copy using poly inserts.
Frankly if I was concerned about what all this looks like, I would just provide the mounts to OTTP and leave it at that.
You a betting man? guess what the materials is? Lets see. Until then...
From post #124 in this thread:
"Hey great to hear you are testing the sway bars. Make sure you get a Progress, suspension tech and Eibach, dont pick out what you think is the best one to "pick on." It would not be fair to choose the TTR VS Powell when there are so many brands out there.
I would like to see a comparision on a heat treated Eibach bar VS the Powell non heat treated chromoly also. I am sure ours will be above progress and Suspension tech (as they use a similar/same material, but smaller in diameter), but below Powell/Eibach, it wouldn't/won't suprise me. I would guess TTR will be the middle of the road.
The Powell and Eibach was released to public after ours, and all the others. They should improve as new brands come out.
BTW make sure all the sway bars are independetly tested by a CERTIFIED company, not yourself. Providing a documented under writing write up. Third party testing is a must."
Dont just test TTR, make sure you do Eibachs also, Heat treated spring steel will show better results than NON heat treated chromoly. Also Progress and Suspension Tech should be tested in this analysis.
I did read it but it said nothing about posting them tomorrow.. it said
I will await said pictures.
woot woot! uhhh rallyracer things april 1st we should be able to get the cars out... today was like 40 here and sunny...i was so tempted 
Maybe I will have to make a trip up to canada to make you install all my parts :P
We also are taking step-by-step pictures as we are making the TTR Front STOP mounts now.
Maybe I will have to make a trip up to canada to make you install all my parts :P
Last edited by northvibe; Feb 21, 2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Senior Member
Joined: 03-26-06
Posts: 2,271
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From: Michigan
As an engineer myself, if I wanted to see the "natural state" of a material I would do, what industry standard tests, and common sense dictate, run it through a band saw. That would have avoided so much of the BS in this thread
Cutting the tab off cleanly with a band saw, would give you an unmolested look at the material... deforming it by clamping it in a vice, then bending/breaking it seems counter-intuitive to your purpose. especially since this was a non-load bearing tab, and there was just no need to test it's strength against a bending moment.
Haz l33t wheelz.
Joined: 09-14-07
Posts: 18,883
Likes: 3
From: Costa Mesa CA
I wanted to leave well enough alone on this tab topic, but this justification, of the "tab in a vice push" style test is kinda weak.
As an engineer myself, if I wanted to see the "natural state" of a material I would do, what industry standard tests, and common sense dictate, run it through a band saw. That would have avoided so much of the BS in this thread
Cutting the tab off cleanly with a band saw, would give you an unmolested look at the material... deforming it by clamping it in a vice, then bending/breaking it seems counter-intuitive to your purpose. especially since this was a non-load bearing tab, and there was just no need to test it's strength against a bending moment.
As an engineer myself, if I wanted to see the "natural state" of a material I would do, what industry standard tests, and common sense dictate, run it through a band saw. That would have avoided so much of the BS in this thread
Cutting the tab off cleanly with a band saw, would give you an unmolested look at the material... deforming it by clamping it in a vice, then bending/breaking it seems counter-intuitive to your purpose. especially since this was a non-load bearing tab, and there was just no need to test it's strength against a bending moment.
The lab results will tell the final answer.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: 02-03-08
Posts: 3,454
Likes: 1
From: Port Perry Ontario
I wanted to leave well enough alone on this tab topic, but this justification, of the "tab in a vice push" style test is kinda weak.
As an engineer myself, if I wanted to see the "natural state" of a material I would do, what industry standard tests, and common sense dictate, run it through a band saw. That would have avoided so much of the BS in this thread
Cutting the tab off cleanly with a band saw, would give you an unmolested look at the material... deforming it by clamping it in a vice, then bending/breaking it seems counter-intuitive to your purpose. especially since this was a non-load bearing tab, and there was just no need to test it's strength against a bending moment.
As an engineer myself, if I wanted to see the "natural state" of a material I would do, what industry standard tests, and common sense dictate, run it through a band saw. That would have avoided so much of the BS in this thread
Cutting the tab off cleanly with a band saw, would give you an unmolested look at the material... deforming it by clamping it in a vice, then bending/breaking it seems counter-intuitive to your purpose. especially since this was a non-load bearing tab, and there was just no need to test it's strength against a bending moment.
The independent lab results will be published when they are completed. No BS.
I dont sell TTR mounts but I surely would not recommend using the rotated (STOP) TTR mount in conjunction with a solid upper mount. I provided a 3 d drawing to show that. also some measurements. I have seen poly upper mounts travel out of the mount. Thats not BS
I would also would be hardpressed to drive my car with the vibes poly gives, regardless of rotation. I have a lot of poly mounts here of various ages and mileages and brands. People take them off when they get fed up with the vibes. Thats not BS either, but some folks like the vibes.
Like I said, and this is no BS: Make your own decision. The choice is easy...
P.S. no engineering degree initials after my name. Not at all.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-26-06
Posts: 2,271
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From: Michigan
I dont sell TTR mounts but I surely would not recommend using the rotated (STOP) TTR mount in conjunction with a solid upper mount. I provided a 3 d drawing to show that. also some measurements. I have seen poly upper mounts travel out of the mount. Thats not BS
P.S. no engineering degree initials after my name. Not at all.
I never said the whole thread was B.S. far from it, this is a great thread, that I hope to see it stay on topic. After reading all 11 pages, there is alot of chatter about the "locating tab", it sadly buries some of the valuable tid-bits And once again, I hope you see my intentions for what they are, many things get lost in translation on a forum, written words are always free to interpretation. I'm not bashing or supporting any vendor.
Thread Starter
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Joined: 02-03-08
Posts: 3,454
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From: Port Perry Ontario
You're welcome, I just wanted to make sure that point was further emphasized.
I just want to see this discussion kept in focus. And hope that members contemplating a decision based on said info can read between the lines. As I see it, both companies offer a great product, with the only major discernible difference exposed thus far being poly vs. rubber and price. As far as I can see, those points aside, both products do what they advertise.
No hard feelings or ill will intended. Like I said, I value your opinion, and you are a contributing member to our community. I didn't intend to bash you with my post, just wanted to voice what I perceived. Hope you read it for what it was.
I really do want to see what the lab says, and understand that it won't be a fast process.
As to whether they copied your design, that's a legitimate point, and I can see where you would have animosity being that were the case. I just hope to see the blows being kept above the belt, and focused on what really matters.
Your work, and innovation speak for themselves
Am I a betting man, hells yeah. But I just don't have enough info here to do so. I'd hope TTR wasn't foolish enough to lie, with you holding the evidence, and the motive to expose it, like I said, I'm anxiously awaiting the results.
I just want to see this discussion kept in focus. And hope that members contemplating a decision based on said info can read between the lines. As I see it, both companies offer a great product, with the only major discernible difference exposed thus far being poly vs. rubber and price. As far as I can see, those points aside, both products do what they advertise.
No hard feelings or ill will intended. Like I said, I value your opinion, and you are a contributing member to our community. I didn't intend to bash you with my post, just wanted to voice what I perceived. Hope you read it for what it was.
I really do want to see what the lab says, and understand that it won't be a fast process.
As to whether they copied your design, that's a legitimate point, and I can see where you would have animosity being that were the case. I just hope to see the blows being kept above the belt, and focused on what really matters.
Your work, and innovation speak for themselves
Am I a betting man, hells yeah. But I just don't have enough info here to do so. I'd hope TTR wasn't foolish enough to lie, with you holding the evidence, and the motive to expose it, like I said, I'm anxiously awaiting the results.
If there is any concern I have, it is the extra ordinary effort that Aaron at TTR made to get this thread deleted, or me banned. His record of a deluge PM's to mods insisting that this or that thread be deleted or this or that person be banned is frankly very sad and universally acknowledged.
I am permanently banned on RLF. For the exact same thread....But then i doubt that TTR will remain a vendor there much longer...
Animosity? Hell yeah.
Independent testing? Hell yeah.
lLets find out. Afterall Aaron wants the sway bars independently tested - all of them? Thats easy. We will get that done, but he has told us this : His bars are mild steel (he has said they are untreated 1055 or something like that, material that is recognized in the engineering community as NOT a suitable material use for sway bars. 0
I am testing these parts for material composition.
So when we got the TTR mounts, we looked at powdercoated Mounts and think...why is this coated? costs money ,doesnt look as pretty? ....let u know.
The STOP mounts refered above, is the set you have.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Per request, to prove these are machined from 6061 T6, in house, from a billet block of aluminum:
STEP 1, 2" X 7" X 6" block is in the vise, ready to start machining, photo clearly shows the Mill printing on the material grade and ASTM spec:
STEP 2, machining the one side, notice we machine the 2 mounting holes and the main center bushing housing all in the same setup, for the closest possible alignment:
STEP 3, Side one is complete:
STEP 4, block is flipped for machining on the other side:
STEP 5, second side is completed:
STEP 6, block is located in a fixture to machine the contour of the part, this is the final step:
STEP 7, contour is roughed out, needs finish machining:
STEP 8, part is completed, including the engraving of the "TTR" logo:
Cast huh John?
Last edited by TurboTechRacing; Feb 21, 2010 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: Alberta, Canada
Im Sorry but this thread is Starting to get stupid with ppl bashing. Both mounts are great and will never ever break. The GM stock mounts have held 500whp on a cobalt and so will these and not break if you break these mounts you ARE A DUMB ASS and dont know what ur doing. Both Are Great products and it all comes down to what the buyer wants, wheather he/she wants poly or rubber bushings. I bought the TTR STOP mounts and love them the vibrations aren't to bad at all i have been in some intense vibrating cars before and this is nothing. Aaron just proved how and what they make them out of so stop assuming and thinking you know what their company does when u dont even work for them. AS for the weight of the mounts they the dam mud u get under ur car will wiegh more come on seriously and why the hell would u want to lighten up ur front drive wheels when traction is a issue as it is like putting a carbon fiber hood on.. Great for looks but u just took weight that will help for ur tration away. If u want to lighten up the car do it in other places like the interior or the rear end and put a carbon trunk on to help limit weight transfer off the front drive wheels onto to rear.
Thanks and stopping bashing.
Also The TTR mounts fit perfectly and took me 5 minutes to install will i am a GM tech.
Thanks and stopping bashing.
Also The TTR mounts fit perfectly and took me 5 minutes to install will i am a GM tech.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-09
Posts: 4,374
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
Im Sorry but this thread is Starting to get stupid with ppl bashing. Both mounts are great and will never ever break. The GM stock mounts have held 500whp on a cobalt and so will these and not break if you break these mounts you ARE A DUMB ASS and dont know what ur doing. Both Are Great products and it all comes down to what the buyer wants, wheather he/she wants poly or rubber bushings. I bought the TTR STOP mounts and love them the vibrations aren't to bad at all i have been in some intense vibrating cars before and this is nothing. Aaron just proved how and what they make them out of so stop assuming and thinking you know what their company does when u dont even work for them. AS for the weight of the mounts they the dam mud u get under ur car will wiegh more come on seriously and why the hell would u want to lighten up ur front drive wheels when traction is a issue as it is like putting a carbon fiber hood on.. Great for looks but u just took weight that will help for ur tration away. If u want to lighten up the car do it in other places like the interior or the rear end and put a carbon trunk on to help limit weight transfer off the front drive wheels onto to rear.
Thanks and stopping bashing.
Also The TTR mounts fit perfectly and took me 5 minutes to install will i am a GM tech.
Thanks and stopping bashing.
Also The TTR mounts fit perfectly and took me 5 minutes to install will i am a GM tech.
New Member
Joined: 10-21-09
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Milan, OH
random mount setup question
sorry for the random question...i have a 2004 ION Redline w/ 2.8, 60's, LS4 TB, K&N CAI, ZZP exhaust(header, dp, catback), GMPP clutch, dual pas w/opt B, and ZZP H/E. Currently I am running my stock mounts with poly inserts, and a stock top mount with the ingalls TD on it. Is this a decent setup or should i start looking into rotated mounts? I've killed one trans already... *LSD actually shot spider gears into bell housing and destroyed my SPEC clutch and flywheel.
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