so the question is, how inefficient is the supercharger if it isnt plugged directly into the stock cobalt intake manifold?

also with enough cooling mods would your boost go down?

if you wanted to keep it in auot terms think about why no2 uses bottle heaters

 

pressure will actually be the same, you will just have less dense oxygen molecules.

You can have pressurized water at 10 psi in a pipe and 10 psi of air.... just because one is more dense than the other doesnt mean it doesnt pressurize the same. So you will be boosting the same.

 

Sorry if im acting, slow.. im normally pretty good at this stuff... but basically it has to do with the saturation of oxygen due to the heat?

 

no...

when the engine is saturated with heat or heatsoaked, it means less oxygen atoms are involved per volume of air.

when any element (that i know of) is exposed to higher temperatures the atoms get excited and expand. Hence why the same amount of oxygen is in the balloon, in the freezer, and outside. However the molecules are what are moving. Contracting pending on colder temps, and expanding on hotter temps. The excited atoms move away from each other because they are speeding up.

so lets say i fill a balloon up with cold air and it has the same volume as the other balloon in ambient air. Now if i theoretically use a straw with a psi meter and let the air out the exact same way, they will exert the same amount of pressure.

However, a shitload more oxygen atoms passed in the colder one. To expose this truth, take that balloon and fill it with cold air again and expose it to the ambient temperature......

as those molecules excite they expand and POP....thats how they blow up in hot weather when your having a pool party.

thus exposing the truth of detonation possibilities with colder air.

and no, im not going to be rude about explaining and be a kid about it. Thing is, alot more people dont know about this crap and dont say anything at all.

 

just to mess with you a bit why does water expand when it gets cold

 

ice has the same characteristics of contracting with cold,

however liquid is different and i dont remember why....id have to look it up

google is my friend:

This unusual behavior has its origin in the structure of the water molecule. There is a strong tendency to form a network of hydrogen bonds, where each hydrogen atom is in a line between two oxygen atoms. This hydrogen bonding tendency gets stronger as the temperature gets lower (because there is less thermal energy to shake the hydrogen bonds out of position). The ice structure is completely hydrogen bonded, and these bonds force the crystalline structure to be very "open"

also unlike other properties i know of, the colder it gets, the less dense it gets.

hence why ice floats. Good catch btw.

 

Thanks for not being rude... i try to help people out on here as well with the things i know, i hate being flammed for asking a question and i thinnk its wrong for others to flame as well....

Even though there is the same amount of air and pressure... the engine needs to use more of the air because of the lesser density of the oxygen? please god tell me im getting on teh right track...

 

k we'll get this.... stop thinking about air....

because air is a combination of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, oxygen, and water and other **** i cant think of.

lets hypothetically say that the engine needs 25 oxygen atoms to make a flame.
Because you need oxygen for fire.... you cant take your zippo up in to outer space and light it.

so you need 25 oxygen atoms and you only have this small straw delivering the air(oxygen atoms in the air).

When the air is heated up less oxygen atoms are in the same amount of space because they are expanding so much.

so.... if at 60 degrees you can hold only 15 oxygen atoms.... you better go down to 30 degrees to make the air more dense....or more oxygen atoms can fit in that space....now all of a sudden you have 30 oxygen atoms....

what others do is cool it even more to 0 degrees..... now they have 100 oxygen atoms and they can make stronger DETONATION YAYAYAYAY more power.

What MOST people are doing.....

"oh **** i can only fit 15 atoms in this straw..... let me put on a smaller pulley and shoot MORE of the 15 atom volume of air down the pipe so it will = 30.

however they bring in more heat doing that way....so in reality they are getting 20 because of the velosity and friction they deliver the air.

hope that makes sense.

 

that was a great explination... really im not just blowing 15 atoms up your ass through a small straw.... ha ha ha

that makes so much sense.

 

alright, i think i was too stuck on air to get anything, its all about the oxygen? since thats what makes the boom for the pistons.. right?

If thats the case, cooling is deffinalyt the best way to go... since the whole point is to get the more oxygen into the engine, and cooling seems to be the most effective method... Are theyre any other ways?

lets say we have 30 atoms at 30 degrees... if we moved to the smaller pulley... to an extent (2.8 or 2.7 inch pulley), and found a way to keep the air at still 30 degrees... wouldnt that be more power yielding?

 

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE A WINNER

the problem is..... your against one thing.....

when you force air in faster, and it hits any walls violently like the tubing of your CAI it generates heat due to the energy of it. This is why people port and polish so they can avoid this "friction". Also the eaton is deemed the heaton for the heat it generates by forcing all this air in so violently and creating that vaccuum whine you hear.

Rub your hands together real fast and you will feel them heat up. Same thing with oxygen flowing. Rub your hands faster and it heats up faster(2.5 pulley). Slower and it heats up slower(stock pulley). This is why cooling is needed and an equileribrium is hard to find between pushing ALOT of air, and keeping it cold so we dont lose those oxygen atoms.

 

so really just because you can have colder air at higher psi doesnt mean you should do it? You shoudlnt port and polish the sc because the distance of the gears inside and the wall of the sc shouldnt be increased, even microscopically, from what ive heard..

<-- MY BRAIN!!!

 

lol

nooooo im saying that colder air at high psi is GOOD....

just recognize by PUSHING more air in there at more violent speeds will heat up faster than if you pushed it in slower. How fast vs how cool the air is will determine what a good balance will net you.

And that all is correct. I wouldnt port any portion of the SC for volumetric reasons. Polish is good because those hard flaskings are creating friction....and you want it nice and smooth so the oxygen atoms dont bounce alot and generate less heat. Also porting and polishing doesnt begin or end at the SC.... the intake manifold is something that is blocking the air before detonation and is being looked at to stop generating friction and giving a nice straight flow so it can fire.

i want to keep this as simple as i can...so dont jump in about heads/cams just yet if your watching.

 

alright.. no problem... long story short you should spend money on coolings mods way before pulley mods

Ive seen pics of someone polishing the throttle body... I was looking at getting the ls4 throttle body... would this be a good idea scientifically? what differences would it make and what would i have to compensate for?

Intake manifold is what the blower hooks to correct? What parts of the inside of the blower can be polished?

 

i wouldnt polish anything more than the inlet where the TB attaches, and the triangle outlet. It wont net you the gains compared to a new intake manifold...and yes the SC sits on top of the intake manifold.

bigger tb has been proven to gain a little down low but i think you lose some up top. You cant really "create" better flow when you know the biggest bottleneck is the intake manifold. Im sure ill get blasted and people will say they have these great gains.... and it may add up here and there if you do them all but what you mentioned is hardly worth the effort to me.... you be the judge.

If you want the most bang for your buck in porting.... port the head.... people have seen 30-40 hp gains.

 

to make the tb more effecient you need a more effiicient intake manifold? new intake manifold is a larger one? like finding a larger engine tb?

 

all i see when i read that is "blah blah blah soaks heat blah blah"

 

hahaha

 

hence why the masses claim more boost as the simple solution

 

owned.

 

hey i give him props for searching tho!

 

Aghaghag Zombie Thread!!!

care to explain why people with smaller pullies have more power? higher traps? (given the driver mod is there to support)

and were not talking about 2.0" pullies im talking 2.8/2.7" pullies

how much would you consider is a good amount for a port job? because im pretty sure the right pulley/injector combo is going to be cheaper unless you can pull and port your own engine.

 

this gets a bit more complicated and i explained the principal in prior posts. hence the equilibrium i was talking about. Everyone knows beyond 2.8 is beyond the eaton's effeciency range if you go past that.... (also in my prior post) Your not saying much worth my time so i will give you a little bit.... if you cant understand tough ****, and re-read.

Ill try to help explain this better since your obviously a newblet that needs some education.

When a 2.0 N/A and 2.0 SC are going head to head obviously the one forcing more air in is going to win.

However... lets take it down a notch from extremes and i will walk you through this slowly so you can understand without that 1 braincell telling your heart to beat will have to stop and comprehend this.....

Why is it that when you go from a 3.4 pulley (stock) to a 3.0 (s2) you gain 35ish hp?

obviously if we use YOUR math we should gain 60 hp if we drop it from 3.4 to a 2.6

but why do we only gain 45? Why does #4 pop when we drop so low?

read prior posts and it will make sense. im done gracing this thread with my presence.

 

HOLY SWEET BABY JESUS!!! This thread was made a year before I bought my car!!!!

 

you get more power out of a smaller pulley because its doing its job... but it gets more and more inefficient as you go smaller and smaller on the pulley.
when you drop from 3.4 to 3.0 you gain 35hp from a 30 to a 28 you should gain another 35hp but you dont you only get 15more. but you gain low end torque (totally different reasoning and situation) so thats why you go faster in a smaller pulley.
but if you fix the problem with the intake manifold youll see the hp you are missing from too much heat and not enough room to move.