So it should be possible to recover somewhat of the lost HP due to heat?

 

yes thats exactly what all the cooling mods are for. the dual pass, front mount ic, killer chiller, all this stuff is just doing that, recovering lost hp through heat. and if you notice every post about someone saying they want a smaller pulley everyone says get cooling mods, not just to recover the even worse heat soak but because the heat gets soo high it ruins things causes knock and detonation.

hell the stock setup is soo bad people on here have just done cooling mods and gotten the car into the low 13's soon to be 12's in the 1/4. where stock ones are running 14.5's

 

if you think number 4 blows due to people dropping pulley sizes. you seriously need to stop posting on here.

 

and once again Area comes out with his questionable prods.

#4 is robbed of fuel = pop

fuel robbing is statisticly done by dropping pulley sizes (check forums on idcs) and since we have a returnless system it is easily done.

If you cant find anything about the above all over this site....obviously you need to open your eyes.

also dropping pulley sizes increases heat promoting detonation, regardless of the piston.

Many other things can contribute to it, but yes.... dropping pulleys will increase idc and if the injector cant handle it #4 will pop. Even if you DO have 60s, you still increase detonation with just the heat of overspinning the eaton. Even if you have cooling mods to suppress detonation you STILL are increasing the chances with dropping pulley sizes but within a safe limit.....however flukes still happen.

the massive fail ive been watching you post has been amusing to say the least.

 

wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong.

people have blown stage 2 cars up.

people have blown them with water injection and 2.8's.
people have blown them with every single cooling mod under the sun.

if it was lack of fuel. why is it i can run my car at 13.4 afr on the dyno in 90 degree heat and it's still running today?

someone on here actually tested the fuel rail. it's not a lack of fuel across the board. so if you want to prove your bullshit theories. prove them to someone who doesn't know a ******* thing about engines. apparently this is where you think we all are.

where do 90% of the lsj's blow up at. at what rpm?
why do they blow up there?

what is in the gm build book that people blatently look past that is the key to it all.

when you can come back at me with these answers. then i will listen.

do YOU know what your egt's are at 140 mph in 4th gear?

 

actually deleting post since im done

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/tuning-131/richen-those-tunes-56849/

do the math

 

lmfao!

you CAN'T answer them because you would prefer to get your info from someone who got it from someone else. ever play the game telephone in grade school? same concept.

 

lmfao i cant believe how naive u really are, i explained it but decided to just delete it because you would go on some other tirade somewhere else like you did previously.

WTF have you offered this thread besides stating a completely false argument that #4 will not pop if you drop pulley sizes.

btw you were pretty newb in that thread i saw you posting.... more reason why i shouldnt even waste bytes typing to you.

Colder air = leaner for a reason... then you say "i" cant answer them?

Ill give you the short and the sweet of it.

You can run high AFR because you have opened your top end up to allow it to breathe better. You dont need to resort to other fueling methods. On top of that im sure you have other cooling mods to help support suppressing detonation....

you sir, fail

as far as the 140mph in 4th, i dont go that high but im sure it is over 1500.

Ok now for my question....

and if you answer this one correctly,

you will prove me right on post #54
contradict yourself on #55
and i will delete myself off css.net permanently

ready?

Why is the #4 piston hotter than all the other pistons?

 

a stock lsj will bury a 1600 degree pyrometer in one gear. stock. stage 2, whatever it may be.

hi. this kills your heat theory doesn't it.

if number 4 was to pop. it wouldn't be because of lack of fuel. the 04 redline cal file runs STOCK at 12.0 afr. same with the 04 irl stage 2 cal file.

why would one want to run a lower afr? chemical cooling to half ass prevent the barfing of number 4.


you claim to think that number 4 pops due to pulley changes. what happens when this done? cylinder pressure increases.
what happens when you increase timing? same thing! it's a ****** miracle!!!!

now, you dug up a year old thread. in said past year a lot has been found out about the lsj. what works, what doesn't. somethings have leaked out from the high side of the world. some haven't

there is one thing you posted that is 50% of the problem. there is another one that is a lot more complex in what it does. i don't have the time, nor the patience to deal with it right now. let alone post it.

go ahead and run your car at 11.0 afr for a while. nothing fancy. pull the dip stick. smell it.

then run the car at 11.5 afr. same thing.

to answer your question. coolant flow in the head itself and the ability to move the heat away from the cylinder/ combustion chamber. this is a common problem in a lot of heads.


it's not fuel thats the problem.

in short. i have learned a lot of informatin about the lsj in the short time i have been here. you going back and digging up a year old thread when i was a newbie to this world and trying to hit me with that? seriously?

 

can admins ban members on accounts of misinformation?
im getting kinda sick of this rrutters guy who keeps trying to bring his high school physics education in here and re-define the laws of forced induction.

 

whoops. found my own contradiction. afr will still be the same, but it will rise when fuel demands are not able to keep up with ecm commanding a certain afr. this is a pump or injector problem. sometimes it's the regulator. could this be what you're getting at? possibly. dunno.

there have been flow tests done on the fuel rail. there nothing out of the ordinary, and will suit 99% of the people here and their needs.

in short. number 4 is not starving for fuel. the rail is not the problem.

 

To answer why fuel isnt the problem, it is a practical method with our LSJs to use to keep temps down. Its not necessarily right, but it is a method.

Stuffing heaton air down that intake and shoving it in doesnt promote heat... it actually cools it. (/sarcasm)

I am honestly done with the misinformation and contradictions you have spun your web with. There are a select few who actually know wtf is up, the others..... have alot to learn.

what can you contradict with forced induction stated? You had ample time to say something wrong. Right now we are debating actual mechanics of #4 popping.

Honestly dont worry about it, im kinda tired of people who cant get the basics right, and use guess and check to get the same **** ive said a year ago. You got 25% of it right, which is good enough for me, hopefully ill get a deletion.

i never said the rail was a problem

reading > you

again...and again....and probably will remain... jeez i hope im deleted soon

 

you can think what you want. im not going to stop you from thinking this. free will is fun isn't it kids.

every motor favors a cylinder for destruction. no multi cylinder engine is any different. the lsj is no different. even gods motor will nuke number 7 before it eats anything else. {ls1}

so debate away, im all for hearing you're theories on this lil issue. make this a debate, and im all for it


hi.

 

we both know i stated #4 robbed of fuel in reference to idcs and commanded afr....
afr doesnt always mean every cylinder is equal (hence flowmatched)

and if you think a returnless system is b.s.

why not tell the vendors?

I wont get in to a debate over #4 popping in a year old thread, but in essence you really just confirmed that heat pops 4

whether you want to agree dropping pulley sizes increases heat is up to you.

I will say this... and no1 has said this before, which im impressed about and have been researching for the past month.....

the oil. But im not getting in to that one either.

 

there is other factors that are evident in number 4 destruction. heat is part of the equation, not all of it.

when did i say returnless was a bad idea? ::shrugs:: the only advantages i can see is that it keeps the gasoline temperatures lower and costs less in dollars spent in the makers eyes. downside of this nifty system. requires larger injectors to keep up with air flow demands. we shouldn't need 60lb injectors to get 270 whp. again this goes back to manufactures concerned with the costs of building a vehicle.

i will admit i say a lot of outlandish **** sometimes. however, there is some truth hidden in it. just have to know how to pick and chose


dropping pulley sizes does increase temperatures. thats a given. i knew that years ago.

lighter weight oils are used for emissions reasons. or for the maker to skim by the tests. thats where that crap stemmed from

 

rrutter...

...listen. until recently, I have never even heard of you on this site. I have been her for 2-ish + years and i have been following all the threads about the LSJ and performance mods, etc, etc. I have followed basically ALL of the threads by Witt, Area47, WSFrasier, and the LSJ "Pioneers" back in the day when we were using a friggin MAFT to "tune" these engines. I have followed all the "Oh ****! My engine blew" threads and all the research and experimenting, trial and error, etc that people did to try and figure out all the oddities of the LSJ. Now...I am not one of these pioneers...but I know who is...and I know who to ask if I have a question about some obscure issue. Area47 is one of the people that many turn to for advice...I would guess that he has the highest WHP of any car still on the stock blower and no spray...and he still manages to keep it reliable....now....

....in you come, at the ripe old age of like..25-ish - coming off like you got all the goods on the LSJ and are the sole authority on anything that has to do with physics. You really come off like you have your head WAY up your own ass..now I'm not saying this to be a dick...but you have essentially spit in the faces of the people of whom you ride the coattails of.

Inseatd of spouting off about how much you think you know...why dont you prove some of this stuff you say. When Area has a theory, he runs to the store, buys cams, and trys them out - or hooks up HPTuners and trys different calibrations, afrs, timing maps, you name it. Why dont you do the same?

If you bash the knowledge of people who have had their hands dirty and done the work...and you haven't done ****...then you had better get ready to spend some cash to prove your claims/theories....but dont **** down the throats of people that have probably forgotten more than you will ever know about the LSJ.

....and pull your head out of your ass...open up that mind a bit:

"One who is wise, knows that he knows nothing.....
....the fool is one whom thinks he knows everything" <-- this is how you come off.

That is all..

 

im an *******, and i only open my mouth when i know what im talking about... hence why i read certain threads and watch, and others i dont say anything.

Now ive spoken up a couple times earlier a year ago and decided to just watch.... now as i see people using only cooling mods to gain HP and opening up their top end for performance instead of overspinning their eaton i think "i told you so"

i dont know everything, however when i post... i do "know". Also i have different methods of getting info out of people. I know when denny(who i respect greatly) and some asshat ngk guy was here. Now i see vendors creating **** i spoke out against your "pioneers". I wont deny Area's mechanic ability, however i know well skilled mechanics who cant get quaternions or basic trig right.

I dont care if you have or haven't heard of me.... for all i know most of my posts arguing with your so-called "pioneers" have left and they have been deleted.

Im spending money on another theory already....actually 2, and both are for the intercooler.

Most theories are so small, even if they were correct it isnt worth the time and money. eg: porting the sc.

Im 27 but 25ish is close enough.

I come on to the forums not to glorify my knowledge and place myself on high but to help others not forego the problems of others and try to explain it as child-like as possible with out insulting other's intelligence. I hate stupid with a passion and when i see stupid **** posted i will correct. If i see half-true stuff i wont even bother since it can be skewed in so many ways.

Last i checked i havent bashed anyone's knowledge short of ones contradicting my statements. It really doesnt matter. I put in to the webmaster to delete my account because i really cant stand the stupidity of some of the **** im hearing. Most of it is theory, some people are VERY intelligent and i wouldnt even open my mouth against.

If i have a mechanical or tuning issue id turn to those "pioneers" however, they all follow physics.... and there is NOTHING that has proven against it.

eg:

Why do you run more rich in hot weather? give you a hint.... read back a bit.... the list goes on and on. And some people may read this later and go....damn that is so simple...

Others, from what ive seen only go off what "pioneers" tell them.

Let me tell you this....

If Area were to tell anyone here to run 13+s without opening up the top end you would have a shitload of angry newb LSJ owners. I opened my mouth to help them..... Obviously i can see Area's point considering i know a good deal about what he has done to get away with what he has.... but that doesnt mean the masses should.

This will get more convoluded as i go, but im honestly sick of the **** that is spilled on these forums when most YOUNGER people will be owning these cobalts and listen/look up to these guys and blow their engine because they didnt read a critical part of what they needed to prevent it.

ill always be an ******* and that is that, but i have integrity whether you like it or not.

on a side note...and this will give you some perspective......
2500ish views and only 1 has come out.... and ONLY about why #4 blows. And the one who did only got 1 out of the 4 pointed out. Nothing about my basic science 101 from high school it seems people slept through.

 

Fair enough..

Yeah...but this is like the first day of "forced induction pre-school" type knowledge - people should know this stuff before they touch anything.

I know plenty of Engineers that dont know their ass from a hole in the ground. It is a big forum...and there IS misinformation out there. People are lazy and want to be spoonfed...no one wants to read the books, learn the concepts, study the whitepapers, and track down the odd GM engineer from time to time. The best information is not even posted on the forums in the first place...

Dont take that the wrong way...I did not mean to sound like you are unimportant or anything....just seems that most of the time, things become heated when you enter a thread.....and, to me, it seemed to only crop up recently.

Cool. Hope it works out and you get the results you are looking for.

Every little bit helps...

Oops...my bad.

I can dig that...

Therein lies the issue - your statements, while they may make sense in your head, could be interperated differently by others, they could be seen as to generalized or soo broad based to expain a more complex issue with other influencing factors, etc, etc.

Well.....you dont have to delete your account. most of the "juicy stuff" is distributed via PM's on here - just to avoid all of the bashing / armchair engineers, etc. Then, once an idea is tested "in the background", the results can be posted. Keeps the BS in check. Plus....most of the people on the site are young and you have to be ready to deal with the usual **** that you would expect (btw...I'm not bashing young people).

Warm air is less dense per fixed units of volume and pressure. Less air mass = richer mixture. BUT...most EFI systems I have worked with would actually lean the mixture as the temps got warner and vise-versa. Most of these systems were closed-loop SD systems. some of it had to do with the sensors used to complete the closed loop (O2 sensors, etc) and their response curves and whatnot. some of the systems were MAF based and you had to actively skew the fuel curve to account for the "hysteresis" that temp changes caused. Newer systems do not suffer from this as they use better sensors, the PCMs and software will account for non-linear response from sensors and allow for temp correction and all that jazz. Fun stuff.

True enough - and he has warned others about using his timing figures, AFR's and other settings.

That feeds back to the whole "lazy, want to be spoonfed" issue.

That is a contradiction. If you are an *******, how can you act with integrity? How will others view you if you act like an *******? Do they say "wow....what an *******...but man does he have integrity." NO. You either act like an *******, or act with integrity...choose one

I am not quite sure what you are trying to get across here. The paragraph does not really make sense.

 

im good enough
im smart enough
and dawgonnit. people like me

i will always warn people about running lean, and lots of timing. if they chose to do it. more power to em. im not going to be held accountable for someone else's mistakes because "they read it on the internet"

i know what works and what doesn't