Do you understand the difference between the venturi effect of a compressable fluid and one thats non compressable?

Density. Not pressure.

You should read the entire article, not just what is convenient for Zooomer's arguement.

Here, lets take a look:

Referring to the diagram to the right, using Bernoulli's equation in the special case of incompressible flows (such as the flow of water or other liquid, or low speed flow of gas), the theoretical pressure drop (p1 − p2) at the constriction would be given by:



where is the density of the fluid, v1 is the (slower) fluid velocity where the pipe is wider, v2 is the (faster) fluid velocity where the pipe is narrower (as seen in the figure). This assumes the flowing fluid (or other substance) is not significantly compressible - even though pressure varies, the density is assumed to remain approximately constant.

Oh but wait, this cannot happen according to Zooomer. The pressure in the vessel must stay the same irregardless of flow.

 

zoooomlander how many of your zzp cars are Daily drive able.....any.....street able.....just aquestion......wheres the third party info as well......everytime i look at the feed back on the zzp site i see none......and i havent heard of anyone using your new fuel boost refferance part either...least know ones bragging about it or talking about using it.....and of course if you a vendor you going to talk highly of your product weather it works or not, if im a vendor selling **** on a stick off course im going to tell you its the ****...no pun intended.....

 

Witt, the example and your equation do not apply. The fuel rail does not have fluid traveling fast enough and if you plug in the equations, you'll see you are wrong. Dead wrong.

This also doesn't answer why you didn't read the article or why you posted a picture of an air venturi. So why did you? You do know the 2 operate in competely different ways don't you? Do you? If you don't, you are admitting you don't know the topic at hand. If you do, you are admitting you intentionally tried to mislead anyone reading by posing a picture of an air venturi.

 

I take it you still haven't grasped the concept of a venturi effect on an uncompressable fluid. I don't know how to slow it down any more for you. You are trying to pick at what I do and don't know and you have yet to grasp onto the difference between density and pressure.

Any reason why you are adapting fluid statics (pascal's law) into an arguement about fluid dynamics?

Do I need to quote again the original arguement where you stated pressure cannot be different at any point in the fuel system?

 

Every car but one is a street car.

We have 3 twin charged builds at the shop currently.

Your last statement is what frustrates me about this forum. you guys always think I'm trying to promote a ZZP product and bash a competitor. If you could step back from this mentality for a few seconds and look at the data, you would be a lot better off.

I am not saying the boost referenced system is the **** or that it's better than anything else. This debate is about the fuel system itself. What is needed and why and what is not. If you care to learn, you'll see that increasing fuel pressure has its benefits. It doesn't matter how you do it. In modifying the most reliable, inexpensive and simple solution is generally the best.

This reminds me of the TVS debates. I stated that people shouldn't expect over 300WHP on pump gas. this results in huge fights about how ZZP thinks their the best and hates OTT and turbos are way better, blah blah blah. In reality I was only saying what I said, which turned out to be the truth. I didn't mean anything other than this truth. I was not talking about any company or telling people not to buy the blower or to buy ZZP product. I was only giving out truth that people here completely screwed over the public by going against me on. But in the end I got some customers out of it. I imagine for life. People emailed and said "I bought one, you were right" and now they know I don't lie or make up **** for no reason and they won't shop elsewhere any longer.

Same with meth. I spoke the truth. methanol works, water doesn't. Again erupting in huge flame wars. but i'm in it for the long haul and eventually the people will try it and realize I was right the entire time. This is why ZZP has such a loyal following. People trust us because they have been burned and tested things out. If you don't believe me now, give it a year and you will then when you learn more about the fuel system.

 

im getting some popcorn anyone else thinking the samething thank you for answering my few questions,

 

Heh, I just caught this. He can't make up his mind on what he is preaching.

 

First of all, answer the questions about returning fuel after the rail or posting up misleading pictures.

Then, stop misquoting me and skewing the topic at hand. I didn't say pressure cannot be different in a fluid system. Why would I talk about venturis when there is no venturi in the LSJ fuel system except the fuel pump filling the canister.

I stated the pressure cannot be different in the rail (and enclosed system). This has not changed. The rail is not a fluid venturi. it is an enclosed system. I don't want this to turn into a "yeah, Zoomer did say that Witt." when the debate isn't even about that. You keep making claims unrelated to the discussion and claiming victory on topics that aren't debated.

"See Zooomer, velocity does change" roll eyes..., as if we were even debating this.

There is pressure loss along a tube. This is not something that should be discussed because it's confusing to an already lost audience and it doesn't have any relevant meaning in this discussion. We shoudln't be talking about fluid venturis and especially not posting pictures of air venturis when this again has nothing to do with the fuel rail. READ THE WIKI ARTICLE!!

 

Hey Witt, do you honestly think that Zooomer will ever admitt he is wrong here? That guy has too much pride to ever go there, rather he will continue to contradict and mislead himself and it will never stop. I truly believe that anyone in there right mind lets all of Zoooms shi* in one ear and out the other. It gets old after a while.

 

Understand that the reason a venturi has a pressure differential is because of the change in velocity of the fluid. Now take a rail that is flowing capacity at the feed end at a given pressure. As the injectors empty the rail, what happens to fuel velocity across it? Now can you correlate how the rail itself can be a venturi?

I never said a word about returning the fuel after the rail helping to prevent this. I said having a return system allows an increase in feed pressure which helps negate the difference in pressure across the rail for a rail thats running at capacity.

And I ask you again, any reason you are telling us about pascal's law for static fluid but claiming its Bernoulli's principle?

I figure lay out both sides and let everyone read for themselves. Anyone with half a brain and a book can draw a sensible conclusion.

 

if the rail was identical in diameter from end to end, a pressure drop would be evident. a slight decrease in diameter at the opposing end of the feed side would reduce a drop in pressure. common sense gives this, or a competent person can see this clear as day.

i'm sure i will be flamed for this one as well.

 

brian im sure your use to it by now

 

please refer to sig


lol

 

hahah lol

 

You think you will get flamed Area?? Nooooo, Zooomer wouldnt do such a thing! Or would he>?lol

 

zoooomlander probably will

 

I know, I was being VERY sarcastic.lol

While we are on the topic of proving Zoooooomer wrong once again we should come up with some abreviated name for the douche.

 

i know i just wanted to say zoooomlander again lol

 

lol.

 

umm "cpp" Captain Poopie Pants"

 

humm I can see this has kinda gone off topic, so after reading all of the important things and some of the non-important things, why cant we make fuel rails in different sizes to match up with the bigger injectors to even out the pressure? I mean if the cars fuel pressure stock is great where its at and then we throw bigger injectors on it and throw the thing for a loop, wouldnt it make since to just make, like I said bigger fuel rails, to copensate for the flow of the injectors?

 

So..basically, the REAL fix to our cyl #4 issues is with a new fuel rail, one that tapers off at a faster rate, or to increase fuel rail pressure enough to put the fuel rail pressure/peak flow rates back into the ratio that the stock fuel rail taper rate was designed for

 

Interesting reading all the important topics about our fuel system. (And skipping over all the **** in between...) I'm not going to dive into the fluid dynamics discussion, but that fishtank clearly shows there somehow was a fuel distribution problem with these higher flow injectors. (39 <> 41ml is a 5% difference. As injectors seem to vary up to 6%, I assume that calibrated injectors were used for this test?)

Raising the pressure seems to lessen the effect on the standard rail distribution problem (and on my European Ecotec a manifold pressure regulated return style fuel sytem is standard OEM), but another solution can be a dual feed rail. Saw that a few times on higly tuned 4 cyl. engines with apparent distribution problems => Fuel enters from both sides (cyl 1 & 4) and leaves in the middle through a pressure regulator. (Return system.)

Just an idea...

 

****** lucky.

 

Pascal, Bernoulli Pasta Spaghetti all italian names the Zumah is stuck. Hoist by his own petard. What a goof. lets skip this thread it was interesting until as Angel says, Zumah steps on his own self.