Its all good. I know what I am doing. I just hate when Zooom and Matt try to manipulate wording of mine to make me sound like I have no clue. I understand that both our methods work and mine is a better way but the tradeoff with mine is alot more inconvenient but the way I look at it is that if someone is moding there balt and dont have the knowledge with anything to do with electronics then take it to a trained professional that could assist. I truly believe that many people would chose my method and many would chose ZZP's method.

 

i would just avoid calling yours "better". I feel that's the route of a lot of this.

its like saying turbochargers are better than superchargers...there are trade offs to both...
just as a turbo typically makes more peak power, and your system will see higher voltages, there are trade offs associated with choosing that route.

 

My setup is better. It just takes more time to complete is the only tradeoff which is worth it imo. I really dont care if they want to act like children about this issue. We are not children here and besides I can and will call my setup better for the sole fact that there is no "Negative" trade off associated with it other than the fact it takes longer to install, period!

 

time, money, ease of install.... and voltage wont increase a whole lot more than theirs. That may not be considered better to most people.

 

You just keep on saying this which is 100% false. You can not seem to grasp the concept that the resistance of the wire is proportional to the length of the wire as well as the thickness and how this results in less voltage drop. Saying that we could just use 16ga from the relay without any difference is absurd.


Thank you for acknowledging this. Now we should be able to move on to a different discussion.

I was not meaning to imply that the flow characteristics are the same. The analogy was pretty goofy to say the least. I was only pointing out that he botched the comparisons in the test. While there would be gains to be had in the straw test, you would be combining fluid flow, air pressure, friction, and gravity- making calculations rather difficult. Electrical current is not as complex.

You may want to wait a few days and reread this thread. When you have completely calmed down, you will see that we are not acting like children, whatsoever. You are merely upset that we disagree with you, and your judgement has become clouded.

 

Angel, I have a technical brain, not an emotional one. I have a hard time understanding or accepting people who say things that aren't based in the technical world.

When you say yours is better but you have not calculated out the benefits, I have a hard time letting it lie. Now I have not run the numbers, I could if you want or you could, because that site makes it easy. Let me pose you this question.

Let's say that the car is running at 14 volts. Then we measure the fuel pump to be getting 12.6. So we design our rewire using 12 gauge wire and bring the voltage to 13.7. During this time we document the drop from ground, drop from power, and discuss the install time and cost of the kit. We then run flow charts on the fuel pump to determine the gains associated with the rewire and at what HP level it is required. Install it, take pictures, mass produce it and take the time to share the information with the public.

Following all that a guy comes up and says, I made a rewire too and mine is better because the wire is thicker. So I ask him for the technical details and he replies. I don't care about the math n ****, I just use thicker wire so it's better. Think about how that is going to come accross to a technical brain person such as myself.

Furthermore, what if your kit takes the voltage from 12.6 to 13.8. point one volt higher than ours but it costs more, it's heavier, and requires dropping your fuel tank. Is it 'better'? I do not believe most people would consider it to be better. The added cost, install difficulty and weight is not worth .1 volt. Furthermore as a technical minded person the first thought that comes to my mind is this>

If you wanted to improve the kit at the expense of weight, install time, cost; why not go a lot further than yours did? Why not change the reference voltage to the alternator, then run the FP rewire to it while still using 12 gauge wire?
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...les1.php?id=48
Then you have the same cost as your kit, the same install time but you have 14.1 volts to the pump? That is how my technical brain thinks while on the short bus and why I have a hard time accepting your emotional and formula devoid statements. 'Better' to me doesn't mean anything without some technical data attached to it.

Consider what I've developed, posted about and been correct on. I'm no where near the smartest technical guy in our extended team. In fact I have a hard time understanding some of the discussions we get into because Jim is an electrical engineer and Ken is a nuclear engineer. Don't you think that maybe ZZP is qualified to develop a part as simple as the rewire?

 

i like pie

 

Holy **** Zooomer are you serious!!!!! You are now talking about the weight factor of my setup????? Give me a damn break dude. Go weigh my setup and weigh yours. Yes 1 Volt is substantial man think about it. Jesus, I can believe you even said that about the weight factor ffs. Cmon now if you are worried about 1/4 of a pound more for that benefit then go run a mile before running the car, your bound to loose that amount of weight.lol

 

pie is indeed delicious. cherry pie

there was a decimal. he said 0.1V
weight was only one of the sacrifices made by going with your kit (one i also think is a little silly to bring up, as the weight difference like you said is negligible.

 

Back in 2005 we tried out a number of LSJ cars (both IRL and SS) using the Boost-A-Pump amplifier units (ala Kenne-Bell) combined with a larger gage rewire that worked out very well. It was especially nice at the time because the amplifier was somewhat adjustable. (pre HP Tuner) The factory pump responded very well to additional B+. If you do a search on here (or IRL forums?) for BAP usng WopOnTour as user- you might find the revised schematic and a basic how-to. Basically you totally ditch the factory relay and use a large 40A external relay directly fed off the generator . I'll see if I can find the old schematic on my old laptop.
WopOnTour

 

Your "why bother" mentality in this case is odd considering that you are all for doing 10 times the work for minimal voltage gains.

 

thanks for a sane post and the search button on RLF worked great

 

Get a life Matt----10times the work???? Mabye if your doing the work. I had my tank dropped and accessed the fuel pump within 15 minutes? Now your saying that it 1.5 minutes for the rest of the install? Grow up Matt.

Its no ******* wonder you guys have SOOOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE COBALT WORLD "ANTI-ZZP". The only guys here that might post something here to defend will be a few of your nut huggers. You guys have no clue how to deal with **** on forums and act very un-intelligent in the process. Just drop this ******* thread all together. Everything has been laid out but you keep coming back for more. My setup is better and is more than .1V of gain and it IS MORE WORK. I never said it wasnt but IMO I believe that its worth doing it correctly. Now can you please STOP posting in this thread and just let it die now. There is nothing more left to say but I can bet my left nut that you "MATT M. + ZOOOMER" will be posting more useless **** here within the hour. If you can actually let this go then dont post again in this thread, thats it. Can you do it? Can you handle it? I ******* doubt it.

 

Are you serious? You are going to post a bunch of insults and say "drop it" in the same paragraph? Wow.

15 minutes to drop your fuel tank, rewire the pump, and reinstall the tank? That sounds unrealistic. Even if you could get the job done in an hour, I think 2-3 hours would be typical for most of our customers.

 

This is where you ZZP guys have a real problem. You manipulate everything people on here say to try to make people look silly and make you look bigger and better which is totally not the case. Im sure many people will catch on to you antics(I mean the few left who havent already). PRIME EXAMPLE MATT - I JUST SAID THAT WE HAD THE FUEL TANK DROPPED AND ACCESSED THE FUEL PUMP WITHIN 15 MINUTES WHICH IS HOW LONG IT TOOK TO DO "THAT" NOW YOU COME BACK AND SAY "15 MINUTES TO DROP YOU FUEL TANK, REWIRE THE PUMP AND REINSTALL THE TANK?" WHERE DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS MATT??? READ WHAT I WROTE THERE BIG GUNS BEFORE JUMPING SHIP LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO. MY GOD, I CANT GET OVER HOW IDIOTIC THIS SOUNDS.

 

Where did I come up with that? Well, let me break it down for you-

1. I said your method would take 10 times as long.

2. You mentioned 15 minutes and then said, "1.5 minutes for the rest of the install? Grow up Matt."

Thanks for so easily falling into my trap. Rather than saying it myself, I basically got you to admit that there is a lot of additional work to do when your method is chosen, including reinstalling the fuel tank. Additional work that you chose to exclude when you came up with your 1.5 minute statement.

 

Holy ******* helll Matt. Approximations Matt. Didnt you get where I was coming from there???? I was simply trying to get across the point that my install doesnt take 10 times longer than yours, not even close.

 

And I'm stating that it does. You do know that we can debate without cursing and insults, right? It doesn't bother me, but the majority of people following a thread that takes that path often become aggravated and the general quality of the forum is degraded.

 

Again, I am a technical minded person. You cannot make claims without giving evidence for those claims. You've admitted that you don't know how to do math or use formulas so why are you quick to debate something you know I can so easily prove you wrong on?

You haven't posted any data what-so-ever. You simply say "mine is better" over and over again without giving a single shred of technical advice or evidence. The only statements you have made about physics and electronics have been completely wrong. Then in frustration you resort to insults like a small child who cannot compete intellectually so he resorts to name calling.

You are right about people catching on. Our sales are increasing, my PM box and customer service is getting filled with people asking more questions and supporting what we are doing. They also generally say "don't worry about the childish attitude of the forums, keep posting up the technical information that is normally lacking on CSS.net"
So I do owe you a thanks for allowing us the opportunity to educate the public and showcase our technical knowledge as well as help people make better informed decisions about modifying their car.

 

wop, you really need to come around more often kind sir.