Which Advance Auto did you go to? I work for one, tell them to use the computer crossreference to get the stock number. They are $1.77 each.

 

im buying irridium 2morrow is this going to cause a problem?

 

this is what the ZZP website suggest for 3"

Iridium IX Spark Plugs are the most technologically advanced high performance plugs available. Featuring a 0.6 mm iridium center electrode tip, they offer superior ignitability without sacrificing durability. The tapered ground electrode increases flame kernel expansion, while the superior heat range design is ideally suited to the demands of high performance environments. Specially designed to meet the needs of serious enthusiasts, Iridium IX Spark Plugs offer outstanding acceleration, high fuel efficiency and long life. When you demand the most from your engine, rely on the proven performance of NGK Iridium IX Spark Plugs.

Iridium plugs burn clean and a colder range of plug can be used without the normally associated risk of plug fouling. This is why we recommend them over the Autolites for the boosted Ecotech.


are they wrong?

 

please read the below article carefully so you understand what is being said

A. FIRST CONCEPT TO CONSIDER WITH SPARKPLUG PURCHASING: ARC-OVER-VOLTAGE

This is the major concept behind your aftermarket spark plug choice.


quote:
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from Cycle Magazine http://www.fatbaq.com/mainpage.phtml?topic=plugs


Platinum and gold-palladium alloys can survive the combustion chamber environment as very small wires, and in that rests their great advantage.

Electrons leap away from the tip of a small-diameter, sharp-edged wire far more willingly than from one that's fatter and rounded. So the fine-wire plug requires less voltage to form a spark than one with conventional electrodes, and the difference becomes increasingly biased in the former's favor as hours in service accumulate and erosion blunts the iron-alloy electrodes.

There are, of course, drawbacks with precious-metal plugs: they are more expensive, and they are very sensitive to excessive ignition advance. The overheating you get with too much spark lead effects plugs' center electrodes before it can be detected elsewhere in an engine, and when subjected to this kind of mistreatment fine-wire electrodes simply melt. In one sense this is a disadvantage, as it means the ruination of expensive spark plugs. Seen in another way it's a bonus feature: it is better to melt a plug electrode than an engine.
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quote:
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Originally posted at http://www.se-r.net/engine/specialty_spark_plugs.html


What makes good ignition?

Ignition occurs in a modern automobile when an arc is struck and current flows between the electrodes of a spark plug, or when current migrates across the conductive medium in a surface gap plug. While that may sound simple at first, the process becomes progressively more complicated as engineers try to optimize the type of spark plug with the ignition system generating the required voltage.

The amount of voltage necessary to arc the electrode gap is set by the following characteristics:

* The size of the gap... arc-over voltage is roughly proportional to the gap size

* The air/fuel ratio within the gap... the richer the air/fuel ratio (more gasoline vs. Air), the lower the required arc-over voltage

* The compression at the moment arc-over is to occur... the higher the compression, the higher the required arc-over voltage

* The composition of the electrode... certain metals for all the same conditions stated above will require less arc-over voltage than other metals. For example, platinum requires less arc-over voltage, all other things equal, than does steel


* The shape of the electrode... the sharper and more jagged the shape, the easier it is for voltage to jump

* The amount of fouling deposits trying to remove the electron flow from the arc... more fouling deposits and lower resistance to ground pulls more energy out of the spark gap.

While it may therefore seem desirable to lower the required arc-over voltage, since without arc-over there is a total misfire and no ignition, low arc-over voltage produces low spark power because spark power is directly proportional to arc-over voltage. That is, by doubling the required arc-over voltage, you double the instantaneous peak spark power, and the higher the spark power, the better the ignition.


All ignition is, therefore, a balance between the requirement to have sufficient arc-over voltage and increasing peak spark power for better, quicker ignition.

What benefits to specialty plugs bring to this mix?


One popular specialty type is platinum plugs. The primary advantage of these plugs, especially when used in an OEM ignition system (especially an older system, which may not be producing as much voltage as when it was new), is that platinum will require less arc-over voltage and therefore, particularly in a weak ignition, allows the gap to be jumped a higher percentage of the time.

For example, if at factory gap and with steel electrode plugs, it requires as much as 18,000 volts five percent of the time to jump the arc... due to the changing engine environment and running conditions... and if the OEM only produces 17,000 volts, then it follows that five percent of the time there would be a misfire.

Now, if one installs platinum plugs, which may only require, say, 13,000 volts to arc, the five percent misfiring with steel plugs would be eliminated. Since the ignition output on OEM ignition rolls off as rpm increases, platinum plugs in this case would allow the motor to reliably turn to higher rpm, thereby giving and increase in performance and possibly gas mileage.

The disadvantage of this method of reducing misfires is that the higher arc-over voltage, the better the spark when it does fire.

Therefore, platinum plugs will show a performance improvement with a weak ignition because the benefit from reducing the percentage of misfires more than outweighs the loss from reduced spark power.


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quote:
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Originally posted at http://www.sdsefi.com/techcomb.htm

The average plug consists of steel shell which threads into the cylinder head, a ceramic insulator, an iron or copper core leading to a nickel or platinum center electrode and a ground electrode of similar material. The spark jumps between the center and ground electrode. Certain special application plugs may have multiple ground electrodes.

Different heat ranges are available depending on application. For constant high power applications, a colder than stock plug is usually selected to keep internal temperatures within limits.

Again, many "MAGIC" plugs come onto the market from time to time expounding the virtues of their incredible new design, usually offering more hp of course. Split electrode plugs are a waste of money because the spark will only jump to one of the electrodes at a time in any case.

You will find that most reputable engine builders in the higher forms of racing use pretty standard NGK, Bosch or Champion plugs with pretty standard electrode setups. A properly selected, standard plug will easily last 25,000 miles of hard use in most engines. A platinum tipped plug will easily last twice as long on most engines. There just isn't any rocket science here. Modern spark plugs coupled to modern ignition systems in a modern engine are extremely cheap and reliable. In most cases, on street performance and even race engines, a $2, off the shelf, NGK plug will work just fine.


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B. SECOND CONCEPT TO CONSIDER: HIGH TEMPERATURE IS NOT YOUR SPARKPLUG ELECTRODE'S FRIEND.


quote:
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Spark plugs have two jobs.

1) To produce a very high temperature spark to ignite the air/fuel mixture as quickly as possible.

2) To fine tune the temperature of the combustion chamber. Number 2 is the "heat range" of the plug, an explanation better than my own (and other good stuff) can be found on this site:

www.centuryperformance.com/spark.htm

Most plugs do this just fine, with each manufacturer being a little different in their specifications (i.e. a heat range of "5" in an NGK is not the same as a "5" in a Bosch). There are equivalency tables, but don't expect them to be too accurate.

So I'll just concern myself with topic Number 1).

To create a spark, we must produce so much voltage across the air gap that the air becomes ionized (the molecules split apart and the electrons fly *****-nilly). This creates very intense heat, hopefully plenty to ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture, and the plug has done it's job (#1).

The shape of the plug electrode is important. The sharper the electrodes (both of them!) become, the easier it is to ionize the air between them. If I take two smooth brass ***** of 3" diameter and put 10,000 Volts across them, I can get a spark to jump when I push them to within about 0.125" of each other. If I take two long, sharp needles pointed at each other, that same 10,000 Volts will still spark when they are 1.5" apart! (For the technically minded: this can easily be seen from Gauss' law if you compare E between the extremes of either two point charges or two equally spaced infinite parallel planes).

There is also another good reason for sharp points:

"unshrouding" the spark.

Imagine that we put a big flat plate over the tip of the ground electrode, thus shrouding the spark from the combustion chamber. The spark would still happen, and the mixture would probably still ignite, but the burn would have to go out, around the plate, and back in to the center of the combustion chamber, resulting in piston rock and detonation. We'd much prefer that the burn happen in a very smooth, ideally hemispherical manner to produce a smooth pressure curve inside that chamber. By keeping the electrodes sharp, we unshroud the spark as much as possible, allowing the maximum contact between the spark and the air/fuel mixture, making it ignite more easily and the burn spread more smoothly.

So it would seem that the sharper the electrodes, the better.

This would be true except for two caveats having to do with heat.:

Caveat 1: Too sharp a tip will melt the electrode.

If the temperature of the (spark plug electrode) tip reaches the melting point of the metal that it's made of - you can kiss it goodbye.

Here are the melting points of some commonly used metals (Celsius):

Zinc == 420
Aluminum == 660
Copper == 1083
Steel == 1400-1500
Platinum == 1772
Iridium == 2410

This problem is mainly concerned with the volume of metal at the spark tip - if the temperature even instantaneously reaches the melting point, some of that metal will disappear. You can see that Platinum and Iridium coated plugs can withstand significantly higher temperatures, and thus can have sharper tips than their steel or copper counterparts. To add insult to injury, if some of the metal does disappear from a very sharp tip, then you've actually opened up the spark gap some. To prevent that from happening, we have to start with a wider tip, such that any small amount that is eroded will not change the size or geometry of the tip by too much.

Caveat 2: Too sharp an electrode tip will create a "hot spot" in the combustion chamber.


Even if you don't reach the melting point of the metal, you can still get it glowing hot. If that tip is still glowing red hot when the next compression stroke comes about (two full engine revolutions since the last spark) that residual heat can actually ignite the air/fuel mixture before the spark is supposed to occur. This is pre-ignition. It generally creates even more heat - leaving the spark plug even hotter than the last time thus repeating the cycle until you melt a piston. Ouch!

To avoid this, we want a wide area near the tip to conduct as much heat away from the tip as possible.

Here are some of the thermal conductivities of some commonly used metals (Watts / centimeter*Kelvin) :


Zinc == 1.16
Aluminum == 2.37
Copper == 4.01
Steel == 0.70 - 0.82
Platinum == 0.716
Iridium == 1.47


You can easily see why Copper is the metal of choice for the core of the spark plug. It's just about the best thermal conductor on earth. Occasionally, you still find plugs with an aluminum core - stay away!


So, what we want is the sharpest tip possible such that it does not melt the electrode nor does it stay so hot as to cause pre-ignition. Let's break it down:

Bare Copper

They have a low melting temperature and the tips will vaporize away - they have a very wide tip so each little bit that disappears will not change the gap size greatly, but they still must be inspected often to make sure there is sufficient electrode material left. They are great for very hot running engines which must avoid pre-ignition at all costs, since the wide tip will not stay hot(high boost forced induction and nitrous engines come to mind).

Platinum

Platinum plugs are usually constructed similar to copper plugs except that they have a thin coating of Platinum sputtered onto the electrode tips, about 0.010" thick (a human hair is about 0.005" thick). Because of the high melting point of Platinum, the tips can be made significantly sharper without fear of the gap changing shape. But the copper core is still sufficient to whisk the heat away fairly quickly. These are great all-around plugs, particularly for use on NA engines, and they should last a very long time. Very high heat engines should probably not use them because the sharper tips may not conduct enough heat away to prevent pre-ignition under adverse conditions.

Iridium


This is the new guy on the block. They are much like platinum plugs just with iridium in place of the platinum. Because of the extremely high melting point of iridium, they can have very sharp tips without risk of melting and they should last a very long time. These would be best for high-rpm NA engines where the sharpest tip is needed for the best spark, but there is little danger of pre-ignition....

** Disregard any BS about the electrical difference of the metals - the micro-ohm difference in 0.010" thickness of Copper vs. Iridium means exactly squat when there is a huge air gap equivalent to tens of mega-ohms of resistance right there in series with it.


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So, platinum provides a smaller sharper electrode to allow a larger arc-over-voltage and will burn off before allowing an engine to detonate. Yes it is more expensive but it lasts longer.


Basically the smaller the electrode (has less Capacitance for those into electrical stuff) then less voltage it needs to fire. The bigger the electrode the more current it can flow (good in cars with heaps of power available, huge sparks).

Now what about "special racing plugs"? Well here is what the www.ngksparkplugs.com site says:


quote:
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Originally posted from http://www.ngksparkplugs.com

Be cautious! In reality, most "racing" spark plugs are just colder heat ranges of the street versions of the spark plug. They don't provide any more voltage to the spark plug tip! Their internal construction is no different (in NGK's case, as all of our spark plugs must conform to the same level of quality controls) than most standard spark plugs.


There are some exceptions, though:

Extremely high compression cars or those running exotic fuels will have different spark plug requirements and hence NGK makes spark plugs that are well-suited for these requirements. They are classified as "specialized spark plugs for racing applications".

Some are [B] built with precious metal alloy tips for greater durability and the ability to fire in denser or leaner air/fuel mixtures .

However, installing the same spark plugs Kenny Bernstein uses in his 300+ mph Top Fuel car (running Nitromethane at a 2:1 air/fuel ratio and over 20:1 dynamic compression) in your basically stock Honda Civic (running 15:1 a/f ratios with roughly 9.5:1 compression) will do nothing for you! In fact, since Kenny's plugs are fully 4 heat ranges colder, they'd foul out in your Honda in just a few minutes.

NGK as a company tries to stay clear of saying that a racing spark plug (or ANY spark plug) will give you large gains in horsepower. While certain spark plugs are better suited to certain applications (and we're happy to counsel you in the right direction) we try to tell people that are looking to "screw in" some cheap horsepower that, in most cases, spark plugs are not the answer.

[B]To be blunt, when experienced tuners build race motors, they select their spark plugs for different reasons:

* to remove heat more efficiently,

* provide sufficient spark to completely light all the air/fuel mixture,

* to survive the added stresses placed upon a high performance engine's spark plugs,

* to achieve optimum piston-to-plug clearance.

Some of these "specialized racing plugs" are made with precious metal alloy center/ground electrodes or fine wire tips or retracted-nose insulators. Again, these features do not necessarily mean that the spark plug will allow the engine to make more power, but these features are what allow the spark plug to survive in these tortuous conditions. Most racers know screwing in a new set of spark plugs will not magically "unlock" hidden horsepower.
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Simply put, in high performance N/A engines there is no need for iridium (temp.) and platinum does afford some benefits over copper in a stressed engine. In FI engines, iridium may offer some advantages but using platinum does not hurt performance. You can use platinum coated copper electrode plugs which give you the heat advantage of copper and the arc-voltage advantage of platinum...just to throw more confusion into the mix.

cheers

 

Platinum and Iridum retain significantly more heat than copper so you can use what you want but the copper are the best for performance. I don't mind changing mine every year because they are cheap and it is very easy

 

Listen to Onimirage and stay away from the Iridium!!!! Get the NGK BKR7E plugs: (.40 Gap)


He knows what he is talking about! Do a search for the iridiums and you will find out the same thing...they dont' work that well!

 

Maybe you should read your article for yourself man.

 

Bare Copper

They have a low melting temperature and the tips will vaporize away - they have a very wide tip so each little bit that disappears will not change the gap size greatly, but they still must be inspected often to make sure there is sufficient electrode material left. They are great for very hot running engines which must avoid pre-ignition at all costs, since the wide tip will not stay hot(high boost forced induction and nitrous engines come to mind).

I did looks like I win again

 

since when was a 2.0 sc a naturally aspirated engine?

 

 

"* The shape of the electrode... the sharper and more jagged the shape, the easier it is for voltage to jump"
"So, what we want is the sharpest tip possible such that it does not melt the electrode nor does it stay so hot as to cause pre-ignition."

Thats one for me... We can keep going if you want man.
I will openly admitt if you are right (Like I did before). But I don't see your point.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my car, but I would in no way consider it a "High Boost car" or a "Very Hot Running car" Mine never gets above 200 degrees.

"I win AGAIN"

 

UR COOL AS **** MIRAGE, This is the best conversation I've had on here.

BTW... I'm still right and you are still wrong.

 

you obviously did not read the whole article or don't understand it.

Before the quote mentioned the melting points and conductivities were shown. iridium has nearly 2x the heat resistance while copper has nearly 4x the conductivity. copper cools faster, has a colder spark, and has a wide enough electrode so as not to be affected by its weakness which is heat resistance. that being said it will be hurt by high amounts of heat yet cool off fast enough to survive and offer superior performance since the spark it emmits will always be colder than iridium plugs during extended driving periods

 

I did read it all...

On what planet does more current equal a cooler spark?

Also where Does it say anything about this...?

"that being said it will be hurt by high amounts of heat yet cool off fast enough to survive and offer superior performance since the spark it emmits will always be colder than iridium plugs during extended driving periods"

 

I think it's safe to say that you can EITHER, run the copper if you are willing to change it more often, and you dont want to spend the extra $. OR you can run the Irrideum, Just as long as you get the plugs that are one stage colder.

 

i went with irridium, 1 step colder, and they seem to be fine, not getting any KR.

 

Yeah I hate my irridium plugs, it supports my 400 whp that is a daily driver.....
yup hate them ;-)

Ballsout get the irridium plugs and my bro will be tuning your car.
Anybody who says to get the standard copper plugs has not had actual experience with the irridium plugs or has mis-used them.

WOW, so irridium plugs are the reason you are getting detonation huh........ BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry, had to laugh :0)

Ballsout wins by the way

 

Since iridium has a higher heat resistance but doesn't have a highly conductive quality that spark must concentrate on a very fine point making one spot hotter than the rest of the surface area which if hot enough can cause pre-ignition. How would it get really hot? do some spirited driving or auto x, road race and see what happens.

I never said that iridium didn't perform well but rather what I and others were saying is that they don't perform as well as copper plugs. I paid roughly 10 bucks for my plugs and it took me the better part of 40 or so minutes to install them.

originally you mentioned that you hoped your purchase was correct for your car and that you hope you were right. Someone comes by seeing the thread posts some accurate information and you took offense to it calling them low grade yet those in the know understand the oposite but AGREE with you saying that the iridium plugs can last longer but if hot enough can cause pre-ignitiion.

you then said that iridium was superior in every way but for some reason you have moved from being wrong to saying yah-huh like a grade school kid. Noone here was tryng to bust chops but for some reason you found what people were saying to be highly offensive so regardless of what someone comes to understand on this thread in particular I am done arguing the point which everyone in the know already understands so if you want to understand something different that is fine.

My prayers are with your car yo hope you don't race it if you add upgrades which increase boost.

 

I guess your one of the ones ballsout said he was getting all his info from. Come on the forum just to troll? Awesome! it only further supports the argument in our favor since the only info that you have shared is the fact that you have no info to share. Fantastic really. Pure Copper Plugs for the win.

 

of course you can run either and I agree with the statement.

 

I did come on here to read your "copy and past" information and laugh, are you the one that said Irridium plugs cause detonation!? Really.... thats all I want to know If you really think that by purchasing copper plugs you are going to get any type of Dyno # to prove better performace you are off your rocker!!!!!!!

You can take your vast array of knowledge and apply it to your car as you wish because its very obvious you are "the master" at spark plugs......
I won't sit here and tell you Copper plugs are bad because they are not. And if you think what I posted helped you look like less of a egotistic you are sadly mistaken.

Sad

 

Oh and by the way, most of the technical knowledge comes from my brother who has been tuning cars for 6+ years, and is an HP tuners master, has been in magazines, and ownes a 900+ WHP Turbo 00' Z28......

So if you really feel your shoes are that immeasurable, I will have him come on here and share the actual knowledge and experience with you.

 

I never said the info I pasted was that of my own but something that I would share so everyone understands more. I never said they caused knock though they have the ability to create pre-ignition if the tip gets too hot. If you think I am a moron for saying that copper plugs are better than iridium for performance you will have to convince about every single person that knows otherwise rather than posting on a forum to get your laugh on.

Rather than focusing on taking jabs at me for stuff I never said how about posting relevant information to prove I and everyone else is wrong? I never claimed to be the all knowing source but with research one can find a wealth of information and in my search all the information I have found doesn't say iridium is best for performance.

 

go for it. why are you acting like I should be afraid of such information or of your brother? If your brother (why is it always someone else) has such knowledge that he can share and prove to counter everything everyone has found, studied and shared then his information should prove invaluable to our community and would be welcomed with open arms.