sorry wasn't directed at you.

 

dude just sell some drugs or somethin, get some cash and rebuild this bitch and throw down 600hp ahaha... dont forget to sleeve it this time around..... DO IT NOW!

 

lol can't, long story, but money is going to be really really tight for a while. rather have the parts go to good use then to sit and rust in my garage

 

saved for when i get 2 the fuel part of things

 

I would rather eat salt than listen to your pompous bragging. I will never be your customer. evah. and leave Paul alone he is the best.

there will always be someone bigger faster with more money and better than you. get over it.

 

it was towards omega

 

When something happens that doesn't make sense, you were quick to assume that the car hit 9300rpm. Why? I would say cognitive bias played a roll.

If that happened here, we would not assume that the car hit 9300 unless we figured out how and all the data supported it.

Modifying a car is a technical process, so is making good reliable power. There are many things that could have happened and if you can't figure out why or how something did, then I would not be quick to assume it did. One time in the Grand Prix forums a guy with a Fiero lightly mod'd (Ryan Chenney) ran a 1.3 60'. All his passes were in the 1.7's but on one slip he ran a 1.3. He posted and bragged about it. We claimed it was impossible and the fighting insued. This was in 2002 fellas. 7 years ago. ZZP is no stranger to controversy and debate.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...ode=&s=#189236

It's just dejavu all over again. We post science/physics, people post they don't know how it happened but it did, the fighting starts.

Any time something isn't likely you should look for possibilities that it didn't happen. In this case above we're assuming Ryan didn't trip the first beam with the front tires but the back ones. But this thought never crossed his mind because of cognitive bias. He wanted it to be true, so his brain led him to believe it was.

There is nothing impossible about an atomic bomb or flying to the moon.
Taking your analogy did the US set out to test a rocket and accidentally land on the moon and then declare "I don't know how it happened". No. They planned on flying there making your analogy prove my point more than yours.
The scan you posted shows 100% TPS at ~2k rpm. This doesn't match your statement.



All through our discussion on this you keep saying "I don't know" to the parts that don't make sense but then you flip and say you KNOW that the car hit xxx rpm. How can you have it both ways? Either you do understand everything that happened or you don't. Matt gave me a scan log of a car over 11,000 rpm. You can config it any way you like or make mistakes.
So I look at what's more likely. That there is a mistake in the reporting or that the car magically passed the rev limiter? Something that no car on the forums can do, no car can do? That data supports a mistake.

Look at the injector pulse rate in ms, look at duty cyle, look at fueling. The scan does not support the posted rpm if you do the math. It looks more like it did hit a limiter and then dropped ~100 rpm and then came back up again as shown by the dyno power curve at the end with the slight climb.

Paul's car with 'nothing stock' made less power than our first build with stock components. Paul's car then blew up before ever running the fast times at the track. I was driving our 06 today and took it home. It runs just fine. I'm not sure what you want me to 'get over'??

 

I got to admit, I got a chuckle reading this.

 

well since I will no longer be part in this community, I can honestly tell you to go **** yourself.
And have a nice day

 

I wouldnt stand for this **** either man.

 

so .. zzp if you're going to be a douche when are you going to start dynoing your stuff on someone elses dyno to get a frame of reference? you said you can make logs say anything by configuring it different.. you can do the same for dyno's hypoocrite much ... i can make it so my car said it has 400 whp.. or whatever i want too

so the part thats funny is you say.. wheres the proof.. you're shown proof and still have **** to say..

 

zooomer. you have a moot point in the argument of impossibility. you do not understand the point i was getting at. i am not sure you ever will honestly.

brad. stop being a **** bag.

 

I agree with your post and I think it's one of the best ones here. When ZZP achieves what is considered impossible you should not take our word for it. If more on the forums acted liek elecblue, we'd be WAY better off. We need to stop letting people talk about magic tunes, make claims w/o backing them up, talk about what they would do, etc. This forum is very slow compared to what the potential is. It is this way because people are not called out enough, proof is not required and logic is not a desirable trait.

So if or I should say when ZZP makes unbelievable HP numbers you should drill us on how it's possible. You should respectfully be skeptical and ask if we can dyno at another shop. Ask if we can show up at a mod day. After all elecblue is absolutely right. We could just redo our dyno and lie about our numbers. Then keep making excuses about not going to the track to back ourselves up or dynoing anywhere else.


You're right, I don't. I have no idea how flying to the moon in 1969 means that rev limiters can cease to function with no explanation.

 

zoomer .. people have been asking for you to goto another shop for over a year now.. it happened big time.. when you did your twincharge kit you referenced that made more whp then pauls car on stock motor..

 

once upon a time, people thought the world was flat. you're really not getting it.

this.

 

sorry, I just thought it was funny.

 

Zooomer, whether or not people such as Area47 or 06blackg85ss are embellishing on their numbers or not, it is BAD business ethics to publicly bash these people (or anyone for that matter) on a public forum which also happens to be your customer base.
Area47 and 06blackg85ss in particular happen to be 2 people on this forum that countless people look up to and respect because they know a thing or two about cars. Whether you agree with them or not, it would take a real idiot to publicly chastise these people.
If I was the owner of ZZP and saw some of the posts you made here, you would've been fired a long time ago. You're not a Public Relations type of individual. You should not be the face of ZZP. You should be working in the back of the shop where all the tools go.
And as for ZZP products.... YOUR attitude, and YOUR attitude alone will be the reason I will never purchase a ZZP product. I don't care how good the quality is. I don't care what kind of numbers you put down. I don't care if your products can grow a set of **** on Kate Hudson.
You lost ANOTHER customer.

 

^ he doesn't care what you think. at least i don't think he does. even though that sounds pretty good and he should take that into consideration but he is going to make money regardless. everyone should stop bashing each other...

cobalt forum we should all respect each other and what choices we make.

 

Reminds me of the chicks telling guys to be nice because that's what they want. In reality life is never quite what it seems...

 

something we can finally agree on.

write this down. i do not see it happening again

 

oh well it was worth a shot. have fun argueing. going to pm me back area?

 

IDK maybe its just me, (becasue im a dick lol) but i like the way they do things.
zzp may hide some things but that bussness.It would be nice to see them go to another dyno, but a dyno is just a tool for tuning. its a point of refrance. iv fallowed zzp ever since i first wanted a gtp grand prix(never did get one). but iv had friends that used there products , and they work. they do have the fastest 3800 in the world. they prove there selfs at the track were it matters.


they have been developing products and tuning for years, they are not just some guy that picked up an hp tuner and went to town, they kinda know what there doing. and they take pride in there work , wich is probaly why they get so defensive when people try and tell them they are wrong. people push they push back.
So what if people look up to a couple of members on the forum...most of the people on this forum are freaken idiots, nothing more than the average joe that went to buy a car and came home with a cobalt, most of wich had never had any experince with a performance vehicle in there life...hell most of them never even owned car before becasue they had just got their license.

Any way back on topic. id love to run e85 but the closset stationg is like 50 miles from here(right next to the track )
Any possibility of doing a flex fuel set up? I'm guessing you would need a alcohol meter in the tank and a miens for the pcm to know whats what...Maybe swapping a fuel system from a flex fuel car along with the pcm and tuning it for performance ? or maybe a custom OS, i know Efi Live lets you turn the stock ecm into suto stand alone.

 

We don't have a shop to dyno at close by, nor a car completed to do it.

The 2.4 only dyno'd 350WHP and ran 11's. I think it was backed up pretty well but what would be the point of dynoing it somewhere else? The numbers weren't that impressive.

Ryan's car just got some M62 numbers for the sake of running at the track and tuning. yeah it did 320WHP and it would be impressive to back it up but it wasn't meant to be all out like that. When it's twin charged and does over 500WHP on a stock bottom end we'll dyno at another shop.

If Tim's car works out we'll raise our own M62 record and then dyno at another shop or show up at a group dyno day. If there was a dyno down the street we would have done this already but like I said, I don't know of a good shop within an hours drive.
We care a lot about what our customers think but not when they tell us how to run our business which is already in the top percentile of growth and such. It doesn't even make a shred of sense to listen to people who haven't started a company and ran one to tell us how to do it when we're already doing well.

What we do care about is directing a market to be successful, being correct on our facts, weeding out those spreading misinformation etc. We care about customers who have problems or concerns, people that have geniune questions, people that need advice and want to listen, and so on.

you have to understand that telling me how to act is like telling a politician how to get more followers. Don't you think they know just a little better than a single voice how to be heard? Would Obama have done better if he 'listened' to people who didn't like him? For every person turned off by my personality, there is another who likes the no BS answers and straight facts. Then there are a bunch who find out they were being lied to by others and would have been WAY better off if they had listened to "the *******" to begin with. I can show you years of threads, just like this one with everyone saying ZZP is going under and has no idea how to run a business. Then FF a couple years and the same thread has followers so close to ZZP that one said, and I quote "I don't care if Zooomer told me to put dog **** in my engine. If he said it would work, I would believe him" and he was serious. So many people got tired of trying to prove ZZP wrong or go against the grain. So tired of disappointing builds and low HP numbers that eventually ZZP was the only place to buy from. Why would I deviate from a proven model of providing the best parts and the best prices? Why would I change and how would I change who I am? ZZP is winning.

 

well said cant say it better.

 

I'd love to sit and join in and rant about how big a ass this guy really is.
(as I said I never bashed your business and actually applauded your accomplishments).
but the simple fact you can't even accept something said by someone other than yourself, even when all data asked for was posted, just backs up my statement. (same data I requested from you and was denied, really just wanted to see if I was missing something)
Either or, **** the cobalt, **** you, and the gtp you rode in on.