now your saying im stupid if i have a 100% mix lmao. what im saying is how can you say my rating isnt 120 octane through my motor? How do you know what i have going on?

 

BC I'm not some little ricer that you try an talk bullshit to out on the street. I'm going off max general value of methanol which is 115 and even if 25% of the total fuel is that 115 octane you're not hitting over 120 soooooooo.
You are stupid if you run 100%, you lose the cooling properties of the water in the mix among other things.
I'm still waiting for your equation that is showing you make 120 octane, please please enlighten me.

 

so if the max value of methanol can only be 115 octane like you say. can you actually back that up? also methanol has its own cooling properties and you dont need water.

 

I've proved my point you're still just attempting to badger mine and you end up making no sense. You are garbage.
(RON+MON)/2
Now sit down.

 

here you go. someone debating propane and methanol on some rx7 forum

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=505880

Methanol is rated at 130-160 octane (i see different ratings, but the average seems to be about 123-130).... you can do methanol injection which is what I will be using. I got a pretty badass setup that i'll be using and it runs about $575 for the whole kit. I plan to spray at 12+ psi. This will allow me to boost 22psi on pump without any detonation problems.

Methanol runs anywhere from $3.50-$4.00 per gallon, and you can premix it with water if you just want to add a few psi. If you run straight methanol you'll need to use a lot of it compared to denatured alcohol.

Denatured Alcohol has an average rating of 130-140 octane. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I am not sure on the exacts, but those should be in the ballpark.

You can also add them to your fuel without an injection setup.

Methanol as an additive limited to 10 percent will give an Octane increase of about 5 points. For example 98 Octane can be increased to 103, or looking at it another way, cheap fuel of say 91 Octane can, by the use of 10 percent Methanol, or approximately three quarters of a pint per gallon, will produce fuel of 96 Octane.

Denatured alcohol will cost you an average of $8 a gallon, but you don't have to use as much of it as methanol. I figure methanol is the cheaper way to go.

The use of fuels with alcohols such as methanol can confuse the engine management system as they generate more hydrogen which can fool the oxygen sensor. This is what if you do an injection setup on any straight of highly mixed fluid.. you need to tune for it. If you are using it as a fail-safe device for say a boost spike or something... then it's really not needed. If you plan on doing it to run a constant boost, then tune for it.

My setup will be 0-12psi WITHOUT methanol, using a boost controller restricting my boost below 12psi.

Boost setting 2 will allow me to do > 12psi up to 22psi with spray.

As far as PROPANE is concerned, I believe it's octane rating is ~104 or in that ballpark which is far less than alcohol or methanol. But it is cleaner and a lot more effective in certain areas.

Referenced from http://www.mipga.org/Vehicle.htm is the following:

Propane's 104 pump octane rating and low carbon and oil contamination characteristics can result in documented engine life of 529 to three times that of gasoline. This is one of the prime reasons for propane's popularity in delivery fleets, taxis, buses, and industrial engines.

Propane emissions have 93% lower carbon monoxide, 73% lower hydrocarbons, and 57% lower nitrogen oxides than the federal Clean Air Act standards.

Propane provides more vehicle operating range per gallon than any other alternative fuel. It costs approximately 30% less than conventional gasoline and yields only slightly lower mileage.

Propane is a premium unleaded fuel with a high pump octane rating of 104, without additives. The higher the octane the higher the fuel's antiknock properties, and the better the engine performance.

As per http://www.rvlifemag.com/file295/rvtip295.html

Although propane has lower BTU energy than gasoline, it has an octane rating of 104 without needing additives like gasoline. The higher the octane rating of a fuel, the more slowly the fuel burns as the piston moves down the cylinder - therefore there is less chance of pre-ignition and damaging detonation of the fuel slamming into the top of the piston (knock). The octane rating of Esso regular gasoline is 87, Esso Supreme is 92. The rating of US gasoline is often as low as 82.

You can find information on wether gaskets or o-rings will be compatible or resistive to Propane (or any other chemical) here:

http://www.efunda.com/designstandard...C=Propanol#mat

As per VP Racing:

M-1 Racing Methanol has a 99.95% minimum purity - the highest purity available in the U.S. With M-1, engines run cooler and are less subject to corrosion.

As per http://sneakypetespullers.com/technical%20Articles.htm

Methanol burns much slower than the highest octane gasoline. (It has about 135 octane rating.) Therefore, the ignition timing must be advanced more than for gas when burning methanol. If the timing isn't advanced enough, some of the methanol will go unburned and little will be gained

**

Hope that helps you =)
-Darren-

 

To achieve 120 using 94 octane gasoline and 129 octane methanol. You would need over 50% methanol going into the cylinders. Thats laughable, you can go home now.

 

prove it. not to mention who says its 129 rated methanol.

 

your own source does lol. Wikipedia.

(129+94)/2=111.5 octane. Learn math and gtfo.

 

wikipedia says you cant make 120 octane using methanol and 94 octane?

 

You would need to run 77% meth and 23% gas to achieve 120 octane. Math available upon request.

No, it says meth = 129 octane. Math says the rest.

 

if you can buy methanol with a 160 octane rating you can get 120 octane to your motor mixing it with 94 octane. have a nice day

 

show me 160 octane meth. have a nice day. Your own source says its 129.

 

the source says octane ratings between 130-160. lmao read. have a nice day. go online and find the meth yourself. thats not my problem.

 

"i see different ratings, but the average seems to be about 123-130" all the ratings above 130 that he sees are coming from morons such as yourself.


also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

isopropanol 118 98 108
ethanol 129 116 122
methanol 133 105 119
methane 135 122 129
hydrogen* > 130

I was actually looking at methane when I calculated the 23% gas 77% methanol numbers. Its actually not possible

 

redefined you're a moron. keep arguing a false point with no scientific or mathematical equation to back it up, oh wait, nvm, I forgot you have wikipedia on your side. that any fucktard just like your idiot self can edit

 

Lol, I just disproved him using wikipedia, which in all fairness is usually accurate and is highly moderated. I also disproved him using the made up 130 octane that he posted from a different source.

 

There is a reason that any reputable college or tech school won't accept wikipedia as a source.
At any rate, he is a moron and doesn't know what he's talking about, and keeps taking the light off his explanation of how he claims 120+ octane and tries to badger you with other questions. FAIL.

 

Wikipedia is a good reference. and in discussions such as ours is perfectly fine to use. If you don't believe me, go edit a page and see how long it takes before it its reverted. I do agree however I wouldn't cite it in a paper, but I would and do use it to obtain general info on topic that I will be researching.

 

Meh wouldn't take anything on there to heart lol.

 

Your loss, one of the best sites on the net IMHO

 

read the first post on this page. with a 50/50 mix of water,methanol and 91 octane, snow told him he was running a 116 octane rating. thats just with a 50/50 mix lol. good game guys. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4831556
guess you can go call snow yorself.

 

OMG, you guys are Hilarious Methanol is 105 Octane.

I have ran 90/10 meth water mix in a 7gph nozzle and its still 8 degrees of timing off of what i can run with 110 Octane Fuel.

 

your 110 octane fuel would be race gas, i assume. wouldnt that mean it had different cooling properties allowing you to run more timing as well? also the amount thats poured through the injectors compared to a nozzle would allow for more cooling, allowing more timing.

 

Not really, its leaded but its not what allows you to run more timing, and its the same timing that can be run with e85

 

Methanol is 119 octane.