paddock

iTrader: (2)

OK.. I'm doin all the standard stuff... Stage 2, Dual Pass, CAI, and Meth injection....

What is the best formula for mixing for the holding tank? What should I use

I've heard standard windshield washer fluid. I've heard of others using that "HEET" fuel injector cleaner mixed with other stuff... What about if I can find actual Methanol??

What should the mix in the tank be for all that I can/ you use already???

Input greatly appreciated.. this is somewhat new to me...

InfraRedline

iTrader: (4)

I mix methanol with distiller water, and I mix it 50/50. Some guys mix more meth, but I depends on your application. How much do you want to push the motor for every last hp? If you want max timing you will probably want a higher mixture. I wanted to cool intake temps and add some timing so I used a conservative mix.

EXsoccer1921

iTrader: (14)

if you can buy methanol by the gallon do that, i get it from the local dragstrip or race shop and mix it myself with distilled water. i like to push my engine quite a bit so my nozzle choice and mix will not be recommended to you. i would say do a 50/50 mix. its easy to mix up and carry around. all you gotta do is get two 1gallon jugs. pour one in to the other untill they're both half full, or half empty

then go buy a few gallons of methanol, and make sure you have an alcohol carrying safe container, i just bought a 5gallon one from jegs. and then fill up the containers the rest of the way with methanol. voiala, you now have 2gallons of 50/50

Zach06CobaltSC

Don't forget you need to tune when using methanol otherwise you will actually LOSE hp.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

i use a VPracing 5 gallon fuel jug with a spout hose. i fill it with VPracing M1 methanol and then buy 5 gallons of distilled water. find another random empty and washed milk gallon and fill till they are both even and top off with M1. after that i have no idea how i do it but i know that when im done with making 5 gallons of mix in those jugs then i can put 5 half gallons (2.5gallons) of distilled in the fuel jug.

ending up with 10 total gallons of mix 5 on the floor in distilled jugs and 5 more in the big fuel jug

OHHH! and you can check your work by proof testing it like the old westerns.... but with out gun powder, heres how.
Just spill a few drops on the concrete and hold an open flame to it (use a long lighter please) if it ignites you know that it is atleast 50/50. but watch out the flame on alchohol is hard to see.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

From the Subaru article, they gained 4% power by adding boost, timing and a mix of 80% meth/20% water. That was turbo so I would suspect that anything less than 80% would lose you HP on a Cobalt, even with tuning.

The best is straight methanol.

the ZZP $1000 challenge is still holding strong.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

how do we go about this challenge? we have a dyno day coming up, if my tuner is there we can take it off and make a run and then put it on and make another. does that work?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Both parties have to be present.
We have to have the ability to change pulleys/timing/AF ratio.

ZZP tunes optimal on 93 octane gets a HP #.

Challenger tunes with meth (must be all water or all washer fluid or washer fluid with a bottle of heat).

either person can go first, no nitrous, secret switches, **** like that.

ZZP makes more power or pays a grand.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

thats crap, i dont put that junk in my engine. i use 50/50 ill let you mix it but i will not put washerfluid in there

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

50/50, same thing. It ain't makin power*.









*Please don't reply and say "oh yeah, well on my car..." because I've debated this probably 100's of times and explained in techinical detail why a car appears to make power when using this.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

Why the hell do you guys make everything into an argument?????

get the **** off your high horse. its pure immaturaity, what ever happened to a friendly competition?

i was serious about coming out to do this, i think it would be fun either way. but you just had to say something smart didnt you.

paddock

iTrader: (2)

wow... I never thought a simple question to the experts would turn into such an argument!! lol

OK.. So we know Straight Meth is good...

We have arranged that a 50/50 mix or better on the meth is good....

What kind of "TUNE" are we talkin here?? Computer tune? or more Mechanical??

Thanks!

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

No high horse, no intentional argument, no competition. Absolutely no competition. I'm educating people who otherwise do not have the means to gather the data.

Thousands of people have purchased mods that make their car have less HP, thinking that they are increasing it. Yet I'm the ******* for letting them know


The fact is that running on straight meth will increase power 5% on an engine with no other changes. Methanol, or water or any non flamable sustance will let you run more boost and/or timing but this comes at a penalty if you use a non flamable substance like water.

People confuse "meth" and "water". They are totally different. Meth is good, water is bad.
If you used 100% water you'd do nothing but lose power no matter how much tuning you did. If you used straight meth, you'd gain even w/o adding timing or boost (assuming same AF ratio). Around 90% meth to water (guessing) you're at a break even point. At 50/50 you're way below the amount of methanol needed to make gains.

This is what a forum is supposed to be for. Learning and modifying your car for less money, more reliably to make more power. As long as there is bad information out there, this doesn't happen. This post has nothing to do with arguing, and everything to do with learning/educating.


My major goal when I stir things up in meth threads, is to raise consciousness. Getting people to get off of the bandwagon of doing things because other people are. Making people think "maybe this doesn't work" and then having them dyno test it or do some research. As it is now, 1000's of people just buy a lot of parts that don't work.

Omnigear

iTrader: (4)

pure meth is bad for the engine in the long run though it is corrosive to the aluminum thats the word on the street.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

this was not needed, and you know that. It's a douche bag comment. In so many words it says, shut up and dont say what i think your going to say.....

and if you were spoken to like that you would want to punch someone in the face as well, it is very disrespectful. Especially when some one was having a friendly debate, not cool man.

and screw your recovery, "oh its for learning" thats bs you no damn well, as does everyone who read that, it was offensive and out of line.

Bika

iTrader: (3)

Wow. Just ******* wow.

I would accept that challenge if I were closer.

Straight methanol with no other changes? No tuning? That would run like *****. It would be pig rich. Just increasing from -20 washer fluid to a 50/50 mix raised my afr half a point. I couldnt imagine what it would do on 100%. I would assume the water aspect would help more for cooling.

I would like to know what tuners thus far have challenged you. Anyone with credibility?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

I'm frustrated with having to fight this battle over and over. It wasn't directed to you although I can see how it may have appeared that way.

Reread my post, you missed the part about same AF ratio. Meaning removing some fuel and adding the water/meth.

No one ever challenges us because the people who generally believe it works don't understand the stipulations or physics at hand. When we specify rules and testing proceedures, it generally goes over their head. People who are versed on the physics and mechanics taking place, generally understand why it doesn't work.

ff_drift_lol

wrong wrong wrong. I have been running meth for about 3 months now with a pump, a jet and a boost switch. I use snow performance's boost juice, which is 49% methanol and 51% water. I gained a noticeable difference with and without tuning. at least 10whp. if anyone tries to get technical and tell you it doesn't work, **** em. and that subaru crap he should have gained at least 20whp. we advanced my timing for 100 octane and my iat's are **** and I get great power. methanol/water injection is a great thing as long as your setup is reliable. pig rich untuned but that makes perfect sense.

KillinKrullin

iTrader: (2)

Where does is say you have to use the same AFR?

it doesnt make sense to me... its cool that you guys want to be able to tune is and be there and make sure the mix is 50/50. thats great i would expect it. but to say ok we tune it and then you add the meth, but you cant tune the AFR or the timing is nonsense. (not sure if you said anything about the timing) but the afr??? come on now, if you richen any combustable mixture up with 90% of substances out there youll still lose power. N02 He N CH3NO2 are the other 10%

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Either you misunderstood me or I'm typing wrong.

First I stated that you can add meth and it will add power with no other changes, *at the same AF ratio. Meaning you would have to take away gas and replace with methanol. Which could be done by just pouring it in the gas tank.

Then someone said "it would change the AF ratio" if you didn't make changes.

So I was saying "same AF ratio" to correct them.

None of that had to do with the challenge. I was just giving info.

In the challenge you can change boost, timing, AF ratio. All the normal things when 'tuning' a car.
This is exactly who I'm targeting with my posts.

-When someone states the above, people think the product works and they are worse off for it.

-No where in the above statement is any technical data or a break down of what is happening. Only "I gained at least 10WHP" which means nothing. I had a customer here who thought he had 375 HP and dyno'd 221.

-In the above case, it is possible that the car gained power. If it did, it's only because it wasn't setup properly before the injection was added. This is the exact guy I would go after with the $1000 challenge. I would take his car and put it on the rollers. Dyno it, write down the #. Take off the meth kit and setup the car properly. It would then make more HP.

ff_drift_lol

I see where you're going, if you lower injector cycle and add methanol to compensate this would be the best for power. I am talking about my daily driver. if for any reason my meth kit fails or I get any detonation from outside problems it's kaboom. Dyno's are not very accurate, you really need to start using more common sense. some of us on the forum aren't looking to build a race car out of a peppy grocery getter. the reason I went with meth is because I wanted to pulley down without sacrificing gas mileage. make sense now?

light'bolt

Any takers yet?? I'd really like to see the results and what was done improperly on some of these cars in the first place.

I'm all about the learning, especially since I have meth in my car. I'm thinking the proper set up when I pullied down would have been to install a larger HE, bypass, 60's and tune. The cost was a little too much. Instead I just went with 50/50 meth and tune....

if there is another cheaper solution please PM me with your thoughts....

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

I don't really understand??
The pulley size doesn't affect mileage. We're you meaning about putting it in the tank?

If the goal of a smaller pulley is making HP, then my point stands that more HP is made with the larger pulley and no injection (assuming it's a 50/50 mix)

Schaeffer

iTrader: (2)

Zooomer are you trying to you could possibly take per say.... my car with 2.7 60s h.e and meth and it would make more power without the meth??? I do find it hard to believe. Being before i had meth i had 18 degrees of timing and ridiculous iat2s. Now i am running 25 degrees of timing and 135 iat2s at tops..

ff_drift_lol

eh you're losing me now. sometimes you just gotta go with common sense no offense.