Meth injection formula??
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
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From: Port Perry Ontario
blackjack just talk to bryan like i did when i was curious about methanol. you saw my car on the dyno first hand. 273/250 and its not even close to 25* advanced. if you get that h/e (all the cooling i have) and the methanol and 60s. you'll be pretty close to the setup i have. only difference will be the exhaust, and my 3" intake isn't zzp.
First of all dude take it down a notch. No need to get all excited.
Second of all. You need to learn to post "Within Context".
I was wrong when I said the Engines used in those WW2 Jet engines where drastically different then the one in your car. I assumed you owned a Cobalt since this is a Cobalt forum. But I was wrong.
You are driving a Ford Probe with an M62 that is not Intercooler. In reality, your setup is similar to the engines you are talking about from the article. They are similar in the fact that you installed a power adder that creates a ton of heat and did not properly address the heat problem.
Go back to that article and read why WI was ultimately replaced. It was because of water/air air/air intercooler which provided a much more efficient/reliable way to cool the charged air from a supercharger.
Which brings us back to the context of this thread.
LSJs have the proper charged air cooling setups. We have heat exchangers which do the basic work that the washer fluid in your car is doing. We have that part covered. To gain more power in the LSJ when need to run a higher mixture of meth to water or we lose hp.
"In today's modern age" most people would install a reliable intercooler system on their engine and not just rely on WI like you are doing. Again. You are out of context of this thread and ZZP's $1000 challenge.
If you had a proper cooling system to start with you would not need meth injection to make those numbers. That info does not apply to this platform.
That is true. Tuning is need for performance gains in all Meth injection applications.
See this is where you are spreading mis-information. Noone on this forum is going to gain 20whp with washer fluid spinning the blower at 11,500-12,500 rpms on this forum. That blower rpm level about were we start with stock.
Our cooling systems are super efficient at that boost level and the timing can be pushed to the limit.
Yes. You could take a stock LSJ, add wind shield washer fluid, and make more hp with tuning.
But you could also take a stock LSJ and make the same amount of hp with tuning without Meth injection.
I was wrong when I said the Engines used in those WW2 Jet engines where drastically different then the one in your car. I assumed you owned a Cobalt since this is a Cobalt forum. But I was wrong.
You are driving a Ford Probe with an M62 that is not Intercooler. In reality, your setup is similar to the engines you are talking about from the article. They are similar in the fact that you installed a power adder that creates a ton of heat and did not properly address the heat problem.
Go back to that article and read why WI was ultimately replaced. It was because of water/air air/air intercooler which provided a much more efficient/reliable way to cool the charged air from a supercharger.
Which brings us back to the context of this thread.
LSJs have the proper charged air cooling setups. We have heat exchangers which do the basic work that the washer fluid in your car is doing. We have that part covered. To gain more power in the LSJ when need to run a higher mixture of meth to water or we lose hp.
"In today's modern age" most people would install a reliable intercooler system on their engine and not just rely on WI like you are doing. Again. You are out of context of this thread and ZZP's $1000 challenge.
Now I have NO heat exchanger or intercooler to speak of. On 7psi my supercharger is spinning at around 11,500 rpms to 12,500 rpms. My IATs went up to 150 degrees. Now the only way to keep my timing maps in the 20s was to add enough fuel to cool the cylinder which obviously messed up the tune and meant that I was LOSING power.
With the methanol on 7psi my iats were at 80 degrees hence I could add timing until I lost hp. On this setup I was making 245whp up from the 222 I made before.
With the methanol on 7psi my iats were at 80 degrees hence I could add timing until I lost hp. On this setup I was making 245whp up from the 222 I made before.
Also I am more than skeptical that injecting methanol or alcohol at 100% will gain hp without so much as a tune. You have to mess with the timing to get it to work with the engine! Adding more fuel chemically retards the combustion which is why you advance timing in the first place!
See this is where you are spreading mis-information. Noone on this forum is going to gain 20whp with washer fluid spinning the blower at 11,500-12,500 rpms on this forum. That blower rpm level about were we start with stock.
Our cooling systems are super efficient at that boost level and the timing can be pushed to the limit.
Yes. You could take a stock LSJ, add wind shield washer fluid, and make more hp with tuning.
But you could also take a stock LSJ and make the same amount of hp with tuning without Meth injection.
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
QF BLOODY T .G85 SS is right. And further I have not looked at this thread at all but can tell you that for most folks a -40 wwaf is all you need. The chart of appropriate wwaf has been posted here before, but because I am in a christmas mood, here is Area47's hard work for you all to see. Tune to -40 wwaf and all will be good for 90% of the folks out there.
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From: Port Perry Ontario
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
Well you see. I secretly placed a flux capacitor in my car somewhere. By the strategic placement of said flux capacitor it speeds my car up to beyond that of BLAZIN07SS's.
I cannot disclose any further information at this time.
:aaron:
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From: Port Perry Ontario
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
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From: Harrisburg, pa
First of all dude take it down a notch. No need to get all excited.
Second of all. You need to learn to post "Within Context".
I was wrong when I said the Engines used in those WW2 Jet engines where drastically different then the one in your car. I assumed you owned a Cobalt since this is a Cobalt forum. But I was wrong.
You are driving a Ford Probe with an M62 that is not Intercooler. In reality, your setup is similar to the engines you are talking about from the article. They are similar in the fact that you installed a power adder that creates a ton of heat and did not properly address the heat problem.
Go back to that article and read why WI was ultimately replaced. It was because of water/air air/air intercooler which provided a much more efficient/reliable way to cool the charged air from a supercharger.
Which brings us back to the context of this thread.
LSJs have the proper charged air cooling setups. We have heat exchangers which do the basic work that the washer fluid in your car is doing. We have that part covered. To gain more power in the LSJ when need to run a higher mixture of meth to water or we lose hp.
"In today's modern age" most people would install a reliable intercooler system on their engine and not just rely on WI like you are doing. Again. You are out of context of this thread and ZZP's $1000 challenge.
If you had a proper cooling system to start with you would not need meth injection to make those numbers. That info does not apply to this platform.
That is true. Tuning is need for performance gains in all Meth injection applications.
See this is where you are spreading mis-information. Noone on this forum is going to gain 20whp with washer fluid spinning the blower at 11,500-12,500 rpms on this forum. That blower rpm level about were we start with stock.
Our cooling systems are super efficient at that boost level and the timing can be pushed to the limit.
Yes. You could take a stock LSJ, add wind shield washer fluid, and make more hp with tuning.
But you could also take a stock LSJ and make the same amount of hp with tuning without Meth injection.
Second of all. You need to learn to post "Within Context".
I was wrong when I said the Engines used in those WW2 Jet engines where drastically different then the one in your car. I assumed you owned a Cobalt since this is a Cobalt forum. But I was wrong.
You are driving a Ford Probe with an M62 that is not Intercooler. In reality, your setup is similar to the engines you are talking about from the article. They are similar in the fact that you installed a power adder that creates a ton of heat and did not properly address the heat problem.
Go back to that article and read why WI was ultimately replaced. It was because of water/air air/air intercooler which provided a much more efficient/reliable way to cool the charged air from a supercharger.
Which brings us back to the context of this thread.
LSJs have the proper charged air cooling setups. We have heat exchangers which do the basic work that the washer fluid in your car is doing. We have that part covered. To gain more power in the LSJ when need to run a higher mixture of meth to water or we lose hp.
"In today's modern age" most people would install a reliable intercooler system on their engine and not just rely on WI like you are doing. Again. You are out of context of this thread and ZZP's $1000 challenge.
If you had a proper cooling system to start with you would not need meth injection to make those numbers. That info does not apply to this platform.
That is true. Tuning is need for performance gains in all Meth injection applications.
See this is where you are spreading mis-information. Noone on this forum is going to gain 20whp with washer fluid spinning the blower at 11,500-12,500 rpms on this forum. That blower rpm level about were we start with stock.
Our cooling systems are super efficient at that boost level and the timing can be pushed to the limit.
Yes. You could take a stock LSJ, add wind shield washer fluid, and make more hp with tuning.
But you could also take a stock LSJ and make the same amount of hp with tuning without Meth injection.
When your iat is about 110 then you inject water or methenol you are trying to get the iat down hence you are using it exactly the same way I am.
Third I am on a 2.5 litre displacement engine. With just 3psi more I am spinning the supercharger at its max (14000) which is where it is now!
And I say again they were using PISTON engines in World War Two!
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From: Port Perry Ontario
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
The way I am coming to understand this, dispite all the bickering over methanol content...
injecting meth/water is what provides the cooler temps and increased octane rating for the tuning that gives the power gains (afr, timing, cooling).
I dont think the cars would be too happy on 24+ timing and a high 11 or low 12 afr without w/m injection...
injecting meth/water is what provides the cooler temps and increased octane rating for the tuning that gives the power gains (afr, timing, cooling).
I dont think the cars would be too happy on 24+ timing and a high 11 or low 12 afr without w/m injection...
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From: Kissimmee, Fl
The way I am coming to understand this, dispite all the bickering over methanol content...
injecting meth/water is what provides the cooler temps and increased octane rating for the tuning that gives the power gains (afr, timing, cooling).
I dont think the cars would be too happy on 24+ timing and a high 11 or low 12 afr without w/m injection...
injecting meth/water is what provides the cooler temps and increased octane rating for the tuning that gives the power gains (afr, timing, cooling).
I dont think the cars would be too happy on 24+ timing and a high 11 or low 12 afr without w/m injection...
More water to meth content you have the cooler your IAT2's will be but the less timing you will be able to achieve. Put this in reverse when adding more methanol content to the mix.
And you can run high 11's to mid 12's AFR on nothing more than race gas and still pull 25* of timing without issues. Pump gas you cannot have that much timing because the octance will not support it. Car will knock.
AFR's really don't make a difference. You can run the same AFR with or without meth on or off race gas. I usually keep my car around a happy medium 11.8AFR.
I leaned it to a 12.5 one time but I don't have the nuts between my legs to keep it that way.
x2 on the nuts. I ran 25* at 12.5 afr on the dyno. started to get like 1.5* kr around 6500 rpm and that scared the **** out of me. I stopped that real quick.
Besides, lean doesnt produce alot of torque. I like mine around 11.8-12.0
I will be upping the meth from 60% to 75% just for shiggles. gonna dyno again in the spring.
Besides, lean doesnt produce alot of torque. I like mine around 11.8-12.0
I will be upping the meth from 60% to 75% just for shiggles. gonna dyno again in the spring.
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Joined: 05-18-07
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From: Oklahoma City
Reason why there is so much bickering over the meth content 50/50 - 100% straight meth is because every car is going to react to it differently. Same goes for nozzle sizes, more meth % you run the large nozzles you will need. There is no right or wrong mixture or right or wrong nozzle size. I just try to stear people into running smaller nozzle so they will have less issues with tunning the meth. Bigger is not always better.
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From: Oklahoma City
I have played with the nitro methane some. IMO it does work. Its not cheap and does not lend very well to the if a little is good more is better mind set. Which a lot of peple have so we stay away from recomending it to people so we have less issues with someone putting to much in.
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From: Harrisburg, pa
Betwen III and V rpm efficiency is still the same. The stock M62 that you get with your car has the same rpm redline as mine (14000) and produces 1.0 litres per rev. Which is why the TVS at only .3 litres more is such an upgrade.
I would def argue that my engine is more efficient considering I was making at only 7 psi what others have to spin their blowers at what 15 psi or so to make 245?
Ebristol let me ask you this question. You say your use meth injection. Maybe its just with full meth maybe not. When you spray it do you see your IATs come down at all? We both know the answer and if you say yes then you are in fact using a chemical intercooler.
And if in your previous thread you think you are ******* my setup think again. In todays "modern age" they make superchargers that turn off with a flick of a button, so actually intercooler isn't needed UNTIL the supercharger is turned on, which is why I use meth injection. CHEMICAL INTERCOOLER just like you!
I would def argue that my engine is more efficient considering I was making at only 7 psi what others have to spin their blowers at what 15 psi or so to make 245?
Ebristol let me ask you this question. You say your use meth injection. Maybe its just with full meth maybe not. When you spray it do you see your IATs come down at all? We both know the answer and if you say yes then you are in fact using a chemical intercooler.
And if in your previous thread you think you are ******* my setup think again. In todays "modern age" they make superchargers that turn off with a flick of a button, so actually intercooler isn't needed UNTIL the supercharger is turned on, which is why I use meth injection. CHEMICAL INTERCOOLER just like you!
You are misinterpreting what I am saying about meth injection. And you are using your setup which is off topic to your original post to Zooomer's opinion in this thread.
Zooomer is not talking about your car with your setup. He is talking about the LSJ which is properly inter cooled and does not need chemical intercooling.
And if in your previous thread you think you are ******* my setup think again. In todays "modern age" they make superchargers that turn off with a flick of a button, so actually intercooler isn't needed UNTIL the supercharger is turned on, which is why I use meth injection. CHEMICAL INTERCOOLER just like you!
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From: Harrisburg, pa
So you are on the Gen III? Eaton claims the Gen V efficient up to 16000rpms. So there is a little difference.
Yes my IATs where lower and my SC was cool to the touch after long runs. I was spraying Peak -20 blue washer fluid at the time. But that does not mean that I was making more hp.
You are misinterpreting what I am saying about meth injection. And you are using your setup which is off topic to your original post to Zooomer's opinion in this thread.
Zooomer is not talking about your car with your setup. He is talking about the LSJ which is properly inter cooled and does not need chemical intercooling.
I was not trying to dog you. I was just trying to figure out your setup so I could understand your opinion on the topic. And as we found out, your setup is completely different then 99% of the vehicles on this site.
Yes my IATs where lower and my SC was cool to the touch after long runs. I was spraying Peak -20 blue washer fluid at the time. But that does not mean that I was making more hp.
You are misinterpreting what I am saying about meth injection. And you are using your setup which is off topic to your original post to Zooomer's opinion in this thread.
Zooomer is not talking about your car with your setup. He is talking about the LSJ which is properly inter cooled and does not need chemical intercooling.
I was not trying to dog you. I was just trying to figure out your setup so I could understand your opinion on the topic. And as we found out, your setup is completely different then 99% of the vehicles on this site.
Also a chemical intercooler is a chemical intercooler. You were cooling your IATs just like me.
I just went to magnuson's and Harrop's websites they both list the stock m62s from eaton as being 14,000 continuous and 16,000 in short bursts. Is this a completely new supercharger?
Last edited by majeebus; Dec 29, 2009 at 12:21 AM.
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From: Kings Bay, GA
Ok my Noob question is, I want to run meth 90% to 10% water in my SS/TC. I was treading about other turbo cars on Devils web page that run 1 nozzle in front of the turbo and one at the TB. I would like it to start spraying at 15psi and stay on till 22psi. I have never experienced knock or anything below that, so i think it might be good to keep my engine safe. Thoughts.