Hi, Im mordis, and this is my first post, but i have been lurking here on and off for a bit now. Right now im contemplating purchasing a cobalt ss/sc I would have done so earlier but when i was considering it, there were very limited tuning options so i decided to hold off.

Now that you can tune them with hp tuners i have this question. What is next for the 2.0 ss/sc? I know that Tag Racecraft is preparing to release a new supercharger for it that will replace the m62. But this new super charger only tops out at 350hp from what i have been able to find. So the second question is, what about those of us, who want to make 400hp+ how will we get there?

I know that to hit that number you have to have all forged internals and a bullet proof tranny and drive train, but seriously how do you get there. Will they make another supercharger that will bolt up and be capable of making more then 350hp or will i have to settle for that number.

I was readiing HC&I and they mentioned a guy with a 1000 hp cobalt. He did it with the 2.4l ss and not the ss/sc. My goal is 400hp will i have to purchase the ss 2.4 and put on a turbo or will there be some development in the future that will allow the ss/sc to attain that number as well.

Basicly has anyone figured out where to take the engine next, with regards to performance mods. I dont want to have to resort to adding a n20 kit and being a dual power adder. I was told by exotic performance plus, that was a big no no. I just dont see how the ss/sc will be able to produce more then 350 hp with out resorting to custom fabricating a new intake manifold and making a custom turbo kit. Any ideas advice and other stuff welcome hehe.

I hope this post makes sense, im not trying to start a flame, but i feel this is a legit question.

 

The turbo cobalt made 323whp. It was Tag's kit.

 

well, my question to you is why do you need a 400hp car? Have you ever driven a 400hp car?( specially one that weighs 2800lbs)

This car stock makes 1st gear useless, second gear spins really bad and third gear sometimes...all in a straight line. My car is stock. Another 200whp would probably be able to spin every gear at will.

Next thing you need to think of is how long you want the car to last. There is a reason why chevy knocked down the displacement for the ss/sc. There are not real long term tests with these cars at high hp levels.

Next thing up is budget, why buy a brand new car, like the 2.4 ss just to rip apart the motor, not to mention the turbo kit ect. Your talking about serious cash. Easily 10k(depending if you do the work yourself) Not to mention a built tranny with a lsd.

This is all I can think of right now, mainly, what are you planing on doing with the car. not trying to flame if it comes off that way, just a lot of people underestimate the cost and time of doing something like that from a f.i. 4cyl. bob at exotic performance plus knows his ****.

 

I dont think i should have to spell out any reason as to why i want a 400hp car. its What i want and i asked the question do i need to get the 2.4 to get there or will the 2.0 suffice. Man look at most tuner cars out there, hell with any of the later EVOVII and later cars if your looking at tuning it and not making 400hp+ your not even in the same leage as them.
I Know i need to bulit proof just about everything. I think i already said that in my first post, dont know why im being critisized for wanting a 400hp car.


hmm but the issue is, inorder to do that, will i have to get the ss 2.4 or will the ss/sc suffice. I know GM intended the ss/sc to be the tuner car, but if the ss 2.4 has more hp potential then the ss/sc then they have kinda screwed up. WHy didnt they just stick a kkk03 turbo on it instead. That would have opened up a whole new world of tuning posibilities and turbo upgrades from that starting point.

 

doesn't really matter if your ripping apart your engine to fully forge it. turbo=lag. I took my friend with a evo for a ride for the first time, brought the revs to around 3.5 in 3rd and punched it. he didn't think his evo had a lot of lag till I showed him that.

 

Umm sorry but that's false.

And if you're talking about a EVO 9, that's extremely false.

Turbos do not equal lag. It's the matching of a turbocharger to the engine that will display how much response the turbine has throughout the Powerband.

As far as the original poster...

The reason they asked "Do you need a 400 HP car?" is for the reason of lots of people go on forums say "I want this and I want that" yet they really never produce it nor have they ever owned a 400 HP Front wheel drive vehicle to know what is involved or to handle it.

If you need to ask "What can I do to have a 400 HP car?" you probably aren't ready to have one because you would have a complete understanding of what is involved. This is in no way to insult you but just to point out that maybe that high of a number isn't what you are realistically looking for.

Also, a new Cobalt SS/SC can run anywhere in the field of 19-22 grand. A 2.4 VVT goes for around 18 grand. Are you really going to invest this much money into a car that you're basically going to turn into a quick street car that has no warranty. Are you honestly ready to handle any and every possible issue that might come about? Do you have the funds to get your engine completely rebuilt, to upgrade parts, to fix possible issues and at the same time pay a car note & insurance? Did you think about your emissions tests...how are you going to pass that?

There is alot of thought that goes behind it besides a number.

The 1000 HP Cobalt you're looking at is funded heavily. You're a single person and you're not a mechanical engineer with years of training or experience. When it comes to cars like that, they are approached much differently.

Thinking you "Need" a 400 HP Car is kind of on the rediculous side. You don't need a 400 HP car. You seem more like you're trying to prove something to your community or keep up with people rather than doing this for your own satisfaction. Also to point out that this investment will involve thousands of dollars that you will never get back.

Sorry for the long post but just being realistic. There is just alot to consider.

 

ur not gonna hit 400 hp + with the supercharger. its just not gonna happen 1st off. and if it does its gonna be some MAJOR work.

if ur gonna do it the 2.0 should suffice. HAHN already has a turbo kit avaible and as said before TAG is working on one. so you can prolly hit 365-380 whp which is about 400 hp. but thats guesstimateing. but if you add cams and supporting mods you should get there no problem.

the 2.4 i guess can have more power because of the .4 more liters but again you have to spend more money for the tranny to get rebuilt, more then the 2.0 has. and all the internals are going to have to be replaced. turbo can be done but the max i have seen is the turbo solstace. if your going 2.4 then you should look into the 2.4 solstace and what they have done with that cause its the same engine.

but if thats not your forte for either of those then the 2.2 with the GMPP performance book they have will get you there with a turbo and some other items they list. hope ive answered ur questions well. ask away and i can try to answer best i can.

 

Reminds me of the Top Gear episode with the Evo 9 FQ440 ...

They put an Evo 9 FQ 440 in top gear going 30 mph next to a 1.6 litre saloon in top gear going 30 as well, and the saloon spanked the evo because of it's terrible turbo lag.

2 litre I4 and 400 HP turbo = lag.

 

not, its not false. Eitehr engine built should be able to produce 400 hp with enough flow, sure the extra .4 displacement will help low end torque and what not. Regardless, rippping apart either engine and forging it, they'll be pretty close.

now with the lag, drive any turbo car, bring the revs to 3k and hit the gas, you will have lag(I drive his car frequently and knwo there is lag, specially down low around 1.5-2k rpms). I wasn't saying my car was faster, i was just showing that his car has lag.

exactly the point i was trying to mae with my friend and his evo

I liked that episode a lot.

 

I'm pretty sure you just summed it up right!

Unless this car, this brand new car that your speaking of is meant only to be driven at the track as a race car...maybe you should reconsider your options.

 

There is no limitation with any car, just how deep your pockets are, and how far your willing to go.

 

You're totally missing the point of my post. He's probably not seeing his full "limited" boost pressure until 3k RPMs but until then, his turbine is always spinning, it just has to spin at tens of thousands of RPMs to reach what ever amount of pressure that is desired.

Why do people insist that you need boost pressure at 2k RPMs or lower? I can bet you that you can make any type of turbocharged setup be as responsive as a supercharged setup and still have higher peak power and stronger/longer RPM Powerband. It's all in the design. There are many ways to help improve turbine efficiency. To say that "turbo = lag" just shows how much you understand about Turbocharge systems and how they work.

Exactly.

 

Well, you keep on missing my point. okay, say your cruising at 5k rpms. Hit the gas, there will still be slight lag, not a lot, but more than a roots blower car would have, yes or no? Pick whatever rpms that you want, where ever full boost happens. The roots and screw supercharged car will hit full boost before the turbo does once you go wot.


i know enough that lag can be helped, but not eliminated. That is why rear turbocharged systems(like in fbodys, vettes and the various truck apps that sts has) work.

I'm also not posting about the perfectly setup turbo car, I was just saying that his evo 8 has lag, when you bring the rpms up under light loa dnad then go wot.

 

Dude ^ that post rocked! Everything you said is 100% true. The point of my Cobalt SS/SC is that I can be under warnity, (a 75k bumber to bumber) and run low 13s and high 12s with drag radials. Its also only a 20k car. Cobalt ss/sc is gaining alot of respect in that with all bolt ons you can keep your warnity. What car can you buy for around 20k, run 12s and have a factory warnity in place. Anyways, ^ nice post. I have nearly 260hp and I can not hook up. I trap as high as 109 with 2.5 60 fts. I can't even imgaine having 400hp.

 

Why would you be cruising at 5k rpms? And if you aren't reaching full boost pressure at 5k RPMs regardless if you're "cruising", there is something wrong.

You might not be talking about the perfect setup turbo car but you're sitting here saying that "Turbo = Lag" which is far from true and you're saying it in a VERY general sence.

I can name a single unit turbocharger that can be as responsive as a supercharger while creating more power and being more efficient.

No offence, but you don't know enough about the topic of turbochargers because if you honestly did, you wouldn't have said "turbo = lag".

*Note: This is no way attacking Superchargers...just proving a point*

Thank you.

Actually, I believe the SRT-4 at the time you could have gotten the stage kits and still keep your warranty.

But lets not get too off topic.

 

with $$$ there is no limitations

 

I was saying cruising at 5k rpms because the engine is spinning faster(in the case of the evo) and should hit full boost pretty fast. Your still missing my point.

you have a ss/sc cobalt and a evo. bring both car to the rpms that they reach full boost at. The go wot, which car is going to hit full boost first?

 

beat me to it

 

Does it really matter of who will hit faster for their boost pressure? If you want, go and compare a stock 1.8T to a SS/SC and that tiny ass puny turbo will reach full boost pressure than the SS/SC. Does that mean it's worth a damn? Nope.

I don't know who will reach full boost pressure first but like I said, it really means nothing. The point of performance is to have as much power in throughout most of your powerband. Who gets there first doesn't really matter but if you're worried about that, there are ways to change it.

You're speaking in way too general of a sence of superchargers vs turbochargers of which is better and responds better and bla bla bla. I could name a ton of scenarios but the point you're trying to make is pointless to the fact of performance.

MY whole point was that TURBOS DO NOT EQUAL LAG as you put it.

 

I get what your saying. In general the other guy I think meant with turbos you do get some type of lag point. As you put it, it doesnt matter. Its about having the most power through the entire powerband and every single rpm. BTW, Dodge does not honor there stage kits anymore. I could be wrong buy I know my friend's SRT-4 is no longer under warnity. Then again I think its if you switch to a bigger turbo. *Shrug*

 

Trust me, they all don't have a lag point. Like I said before, drive a stock 1.8T and you'll see what I mean. Or even ask the people with ceramic dual ball bearing turbochargers. The EVO 9 with the dual scroll turbocharger is extremely responsive as well. I remember when I drove one, I barely put my foot on the gas and it was pulling.

I didn't think they warrantied them anymore either...that's why I was saying at the time though. Thanks for clarifying though.

 

That guy has a 2.2L engine if I remember correctly. I have the magazine upstairs.

 

Unfortunately, if you are looking for those kind of numbers, I would suggest buying a different car. Probably rear wheel drive, maybe a v8, or a turboed I4. It would save you such headaches. Even if you managed that kind of power, this car doesn't have the gearing or traction to handle it. And if you can afford to make that kind of power out of a cobalt, you sure can afford a slightly higher end car.

 

hmm...so turbos don't have lag. thanks.

so if this guy were to build a 400hp cobalt, your saying that a turbo one will have no lag.

I don't deny that turbos offer more power, sometimes over a larger powerband, I don't understand why you argue with me and then just change your point to a turbo will have more power over larger powerband, that is not what I'm talking about. my only point is that turbos have lag, specially hgih powered cars. You say that is not true, but don't base it on anything.

 

Ok, I will say it again.

I am arguing YOUR statement of "Turbos = Lag" which is far from the truth. You're naming certain vehicles as your basis for every turbo car and setup and especially to a topic that the guy is talking about building a turbo car (hence aftermarket setup).

I am saying that they can be just as responsive as any supercharger IF you know what you are doing. Not EVERY turbo setup will have an exponential amount of lag or lag period.

I wasn't trying to change my arguement but just mentioning the fact of why you are trying to use an example of "going to 5k rpms and then slamming on the gas". That makes absolutely no sense...especially to argue the fact of a arguement involving performance.

You even said, you don't know much about turbocharged systems. So from someone who has done a pretty damn good amount of research and has owned a turbocharged vehicle and driven others, your statement was general...hence...incorrect.

I am done