All the srt guys ive talked to and read on my local forum have said mopar stage kits are not warranty friendly like the GM ones are.
They are along the lines of, "wont void your warranty, but if its directly proven that a problem was caused BY the stage kit....your claim can be denied"

 

Oh ok. Wasn't sure. Thanks.

 

my point with the cruising at 5k was that you would noticed some lag, no matter how fast the turbo spools up. My whole post was general and I thought that you would get the idea that I know that they can get rid of most of the lag because of systems like the rear mounts from sts. regardless, i'm not closed minded and open to learning. I signed up for yuor website just now, I like how you guys have the info on the new issue of gmhtp before it got to my house..lol.

 

You're not really noticing lag, you're just not giving enough pressure on your pedal because that does matter alot as far as how much engine load is being created.

Yes, please read up on that forum. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

i just dont understand why i need to justifymy desire for a high hp car. I have driven A gto and while it has a nice engine with the right amount of power i aboslutely hate the style of the car. It was said that becuase i asked what do i have to do to get there, im not ready for a 400hp car, what is wrong with asking. Just becuase im not ASE certified as a mechanic dosent mean i shouldnt get the joy of having a high hp car. I like the style of the cobalt, that is the platform i wish to use. Why should i be satisfied with bolt ons and 250hp, if i wanted to stay at that low of a level of power i would have just stuck the ko4 turbo upgrade onmy passat and been done with it.

Its not like i plan on doing this all at once, Besides i know of a wrecked ss/sc at a junk yard that is salvageable. As i have said twice now, i understand what is involved in making that kind of power. Tho i may not beable to rip a engine apart my self, i do have a level of understanding of them. I really didnt want this to turn into a argument thread, i didnt think asking what some of the higher end options were would result in some of the harshness.

My other reason is simple, yes i am trying to keep up with people. Inmy area there is a growing sport compact tuner community. I know of several civic si's and Eclipse gsx's and other jdm cars out there that would spank the typical gmpp stage 2 cobalt. I at least want to beable to stay up with them, and hopefully beat them.

Sure lets say i put the stage 2 kit on it and a exhuast and what not, and discover i like the new power, sure ill prolly stay there. But if i want more power and ask for help attaining it, will i recieve the help/advice i seek or will i be told i dont need it.

 

Mordis I feel your desire loud and clear!!! To get 400whp out of any 4cyl car requires quite a bit of work and money but it is achievable and an absolute blast. In my local club alone we have some pretty nasty cars all pushing that mark or higher in various platforms. We strive to push the limits of performance and dominate our area as far as performance goes.

The Cobalt is actually my daily driver but I have a Cavalier Z24 with fully built engine and custom turbo that this season should be pushing 450ish whp on race gas. A buddies Eclipse GST with around 500whp, a Fiero with 450whp, a Supra with close to 700whp, a GTP with close to 400whp, a Teggy GSR with over 300whp, a WRX with over 300whp and a s/c'ed Tiburon with right around 300whp. All cars are pretty insane and an absolute blast to drive.

In our area there are a ton of crotch rockets so nothing makes you stand out like having a car that can hang with the R1's and Busa's out there

 

IMO.... there are a lot of cars out there w/ 400+ HP stock and others that can be eaisly modded to achieve 400 HP....
my only question would be"WHY DO IT TO A COBALT?"
with all the mods I am sure it would get expensive....

not bashing... just curious??

 

You don't have to justify yourself...I could honestly care less if you did or didn't. My advice and point to you is that you probably don't know what you're getting yourself into. Comparing a GTO to a 400 HP FWD vehicle is just totally two different worlds.

You say you have a level of understanding of how to get there but yet you're requesting us to tell you how to reach 400 HP? To be perfectly honest, asking a question of "what do I have to do to reach x HP?" is such a flawed question. No one can really sit back and tell you that answer because no one can determine what you need and have to do to reach it. Nothing is cut and dry with performance, there is alot of adjusting and tuning involved and if you had the level of understanding like you said you have, you would understand this.

I'm not trying to attack you but giving you the realization of your request. Sure, we can ask you why you need a 400 HP car...are you using it for drag racing? Maybe we could give you a answer to help you better suit your car for 400 peak horsepower. This is just one situation.

If you really want my advice, read up on how forced induction work...specifically turbochargers, how it effects an engine, what a properly setup one involves, how to maintain one...also how a fuel system works & how engine management systems work. This is just starters.

I am not a ASE Certified Mechanic myself but I atleast understand what it will take to reach whatever amount of power I could possibly think of and understand that it's not some simple answer that will help me reach my possible goal. There are plenty of situations where someone might have the same setup but show different results just because of 1 variable between them. I also understand the money involvement, the catastrophic possibilities and the possible dissapointments from it.

So there is your answer. It's not as simple as you wanted to hear but it's the correct thing to hear. I'm not going to stroke your request by saying "A turbo, forged internals and more boost yo!", I give realistic answers and straight answers. If you're looking for something that will make you feel better while you sleep at night...look somewhere else.

Like said, not trying to be a ******* but keeping it real.

 

If you want 400HP why dont u pick up an STI and put some bolt ons to it, and possably do some work to the factory turbo dont they push mid 300hp stock?

 

They are rated at 300 HP through the Crank.

 

oh my bad i thought it was a higher rate, like 350rate well thats still 100 less u have to get rather then the 200hp u would need for the ss/sc

 

I guess, yeah.

 

comparing a 2 ton gto to a 2800lb cobalt is a joke. Two completely different cars. not to mention a ls2 is barely breathing at 400hp. A nice set of heads and a cam will easily take you over 500hp(at the flywheel of course) and still be extremely reliable. as opposed to a ecotec at the level will be somewhat stressed at 400hp. One other flaw, you never said if you want it at the wheels or not....BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

NJHK, I dont think im conveying properly what im thinking. I hear what your saying and completely understand it. I guess what i was trying to ask is, what are my options to get there. Sure i know that each car is different based on what tune they have and all the fueling and cam/head variables. Im just trying to see how other people who have approached or gotten 400hp got there. That way i know and have some kind of idea as to what problems and issues during said build up that i may or may not experiance.

Tho i feel the only way for me to truly find out is to just start modding it slowly and as new stuff is released to increase performance, say in the next few years tagracecraft releases a twin screw kit with the 1600ax(thats hypotheticly). Who knows what will happen. But I guess the only thing to do is to dive in head first and see where i end up.

I guess i figured out that asking how do i get there is a stupid ass question. I had not taken any consideration into the fact that someone, somewhere will build it or release some new kit that will push you closer and closer to your goal. Besides theres nothing wrong with wanting to keep up with all the modded cars near me, i wouldnt be a man if i didnt feel that desire.

 

diving in head first and seeing where you end up isn't a good idea either because you'll be spending money on duplicate parts(i.e. different pulleys..ect.)

Figure out what you want the car for then go from there...is it jsut a street car? drag racing, autoxing..ect. Then you need to know if you want to keep it supercharged or go to turbo. Turbo will be a lot easier to get you to your goal then a supercharger. You could also keep the supercharger and add a turbo and be twincharged.

building up is a good idea, jumping in head first with no type of plan isn't. So if you really want the level of power, you'll need a turbo one way or another, unless your looking into using n2o.

 

Nothing against money if you have the funds, but it is so much cheaper and easier to build a street car alot faster than these ss/sc by the money your fixing to sink in this project.
I assuming your a GM person, find and old nova, camaro, chevy II or something of this sort and build radical small block for what your going to spend on the mods to try to make the hp your looking for out of a 4cyl. Just a suggestion. Old hp is a lot easier to make and work on than new model hp.

 

Well I can simply tell you how you're going to have to reach there...turbocharging.

Now the true thing to think about is:

Is it worth me buying a 19,000+ dollar car that is supercharged to convert it to a turbocharged vehicle? I mean, you're spending the high dollar in part because of the supercharger setup.

 

He's right. but U do get a lil better suspension setup and body kit. But over all, if U were gunna go ***** to the wall and head twards 400hp, the 2.2 might have been the perfect place to start for the money.

I forget as I'm writing this if U have the SS or not, but if you do, you'r probably gunna wanna/have to go Turbo. I don't wanna sound like i'm trying to make sure U know what your doing cuz you seem like a big boy, and u just heard that advide like 20x.

So as far as I know, Turboing would be the best way to go about it. I belive the tuning of the ECM is one of the hardest parts of the whole process tho.....

 

if you are serious about what you want from a car, you need to start looking at other cars. not too many people that bought an ss s/c had been thinking i want a 400 hp car. if thats what i wanted..i would have looked into a 1990 eclipse, or a mustang.. someone else summed it up earlier... you dont buy a $20,000 car and then trash the warranty right away. thats just bad business.

also, on a side note, if you didn't know that to make 400hp with an ss s/c, you would want a turbo.. not an s/c, then maybe you should find someone that knows a little about cars (not your big brother PAUL WALKER) to hold your hand while you pick out the parts you will need.

tell your ricer friends they will have to wait a little longer for you to make your 10 second runs down the track with them ( i meant the 1/8 mile) hahaha. POWNED!

 

or not even a Cobalt, just another platform'd vehicle.

 

thats what i said. maybe a dsm or even a mustang ( EVEN THOUGH, EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM HAS THOSE TWO CARS)

ANOTHER ROUTE, IF YOU STILL WANT A LATE MODEL VEHICLE is the neon SRT-4. it will save you thousands of dollars to get a 2004 srt-4. plus, it is already turbo.. not to mention faster than the ss s/c stock for stock

 

Def SRT-4...

 

To anyone who thinks turbo lag doesnt exist, you are dreaming.

Turbocharger boost repsonse is still measured in seconds. If you want to compare steady state power numbers, turbos have an edge.. but have you ever logged data on a turbo car going from 0% TPS to 100%TPS in the 1500-2000rpm range?

You can decrease lag.. of course. Mainly its achieved by running a smaller turbine and accepting the extreme exhaust manifold pressures at the high rpm range. Sure there are other methods.. but still if anyone seriously thinks lag doesnt exist, they are not looking at it in the right context. If your at the drag strip and can spool your turbo before launch it will equate almost negligible lag, but try driving it daily.. its the rapid transients from low rpm low throttle opening conidtions to WOT that show lag.

Im not here to bash it, yeah you can make tons of power with a turbo, but as always, you will trade lag for ultimate power. Just somthing people need to keep in mind.

 

No one ever said that lag didn't exist. I personally hate calling it "lag", I'd rather call it what it really is, a delay. Delay exists but it all depends on the application and setup you're aiming for. I was telling the person earlier (which he understands now) that saying that all turbochargers have lag is way too general and within that, incorrect.

I'm sure high Horesepower applications have a bigger initial delay but you also have to think that these vehicles stay in peak power most of the time and that's all that is important.

There are tons of ways to improve turbine response, this is also why I say it depends on the setup.

 

haha i agree... lag should be only used to describe xbox live