does anyone have the info on this install i emailed zzp but got no answer
im pretty sure u reuse the stock studs and theirs 5 long bolts that go into head
then there's 5 more bolts that relocate the lower mount for the LIM thats where im confused

 

i wouldn't worry about it personally, cause the bottom of the LIM is bolted right on to the engine so heat soaks in from that section and it's right behind a radiator that is heating up the air to 150-180 degrees and blowing it all over.

so you're paying $100 to isolate 1/5 of the heat source hitting the LIM, and not doing anything about the other 4/5?

if you want real results have the outside of the LIM and the flange aluma-ceramic coated and leave the inside alone. that way no hot air/parts come in contact with it and the coolant going through the cores is allowed to soak on the inside keeping it a bit cooler. still those gains would be questionable, and more than likely not justify the costs.

 

ya ill keep that in mind but i already got the spacer

 

put it FS here and spend the money on something better

 

 

the stock studs do not get re used. thats where the 2 longest bolts come into play. then there is the longer hardware that finishes bolting up the top of the manifold. now they should have given you 3 spacers to push out the intercooler pump bracket, cuz now the pain in the ass lower bolt wont line up. my kit only came w 2 spacers so i had to find something i could use for the 3rd. the other longer hardware takes the place of the hardware for the i/c pump bracket. now that tricky lower bolt will line up after the spacers are installed. i recomend takin off your alternator to get to that lower bolt. the only major problems i ran into is now my dipstick dosnt mount back to the intake mani and i now need a longer belt. i was runnin a stg2 belt on a 2.8" pulley and we fought that belt for almost an hour and couldnt get it back on. i ended up putting my stock belt back on and that was even a BITCH. is it worth the hastle??? i dont really know because i havnt had the chance to drive my car since my rebuild due to no tune and snow on the roads. sry if this dosnt make sense im a lil tipsy. i can try to clarify anything you need

 

You're post is completely false. If it was true we wouldn't have developed the product. Not only that but we've tested this.

First of all we isolate the intake from 95+% of it's contact to the engine which is what is heating it up. See pic below showing that the heat from the engine is isolated where the intake connects to the engine.


The engine runs at approx 185 deg and has a direct metal to metal contact with a large surface area on the intake. This is constantly trying to heat the intake/IC system/blower to this temp. This puts additional heat into the IC system and is the reason on summer days you will see IATs at idle/cruise 20 to 60 deg over ambient. While the lower part of the intake has a mounting point, it is very small and bolts to a bracket which then bolts to the engine. This is quite a bit of separation and the contact is small enough to be negligible.

The air under the hood on a summer day is normally around 140 deg but air doesn't do a very good job at heating things, not like metal/metal or fluid/metal. So with the spacer you can expect a much cooler intake, much cooler blower and lower IATs all the time, even under boost. This gives more HP and much more consistent performance by eliminating heat soak and keeping the blower casing to rotor tollerance as small as possible.

All this technology is borrowed from our pioneering work on the 3800's. There used phenolic to shield the blower IC from engine heat with fantastic results.
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=234&catid=139

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDlwo...layer_embedded

 

hey if it works so great then you can post up graphed recordings in a controlled environment of the gains?

i can say this works well on abc application then put it on def application and claim the benefits and it don't really do squat. you're comparing this to something (the exchanger on the 3800) that has a massive surface area now being seperated by a non-conductive material and gets near to no airflow over the part itself... there's a huge difference here

i'll retract anything i've said and apologize if you can post something up showing a controlled test of the part

 

Thats fantastic....how about answering your customers question?????

epic.

 

Has this been tested with a tvs installed on the intake manifold at all? My question being that the bolts are rather hard to reach down in front, and this spacing will probably make them even harder to reach.

By the way, love the sig Maven.

 

x 2 the beat goes on....

of course are you not paying attention to the kool-aid? an s/c dyno...a dozen parameters tested in various conditions.

"ZZPerformance is the leader in intercooler research, testing and performance. We are the only 3800 vendor with a supercharger dyno. It measures blower CFM, temperature of ambient air, air out of the blower, and air below the intercooler core. In addition we measure pressure above and below the core, water GPM into the core and temperature of the water going into the core as well as out of the core. By testing over a dozen parameters with various conditions, we are able to bring you performance unparalleled by any other manufacture. While they guess at what 'should' perform, ZZPerformance can guarantee it! "

gotta see touch and feel that guarantee....

watch the video...

 

No, the situation is the same.

Engine produces heat and is bolted to the IC on both cars, blower is bolted to the alum intake on both cars.

Testing requires you to determine test parameters, including engine temp, ambient temp, length of run time, whether the car has a 2nd HE, E85 or gas, idling, driving (changes based on engine speed). It's not possible to give an answer people here would understand which is why I simplified it to IATs and average gains.

It's somewhat frustrating to still even be challenged on these types of things. How many other companies put out any research comparable? How many are pushing this platform and how many write up specific tech articles on nearly every product. Oh yeah, none.

-To the answering of tech questions like this on our products, we direct people to our email or phone system. Currently and at the time of my previous post, all have been answered.

A supercharger dyno cannot be used to test an item preventing engine heat soak to the blower/intake.
We use a variety of testing methods to determine the effectiveness of our products, many of which never make it to market. ZZP spends 10's of thousands on things many of you haven't seen or will never hear about. This all in an effort to develop the best products. This is why all the fastest Cobalts run ZZP and make more HP with similar mods than others.

 

The arrogance shown here by zoomer assumes that no other vendors do any research whatsover on this platform, "How many other companies put out any research comparable? How many are pushing this platform and how many write up specific tech articles on nearly every product. Oh yeah, none."

Oh yeah wrong....Check the vendor list.
check theGM build book. (oh thats a good one doncha think?)

meh

its christmas I guess we should be charitable.

Good one Zoomer, please help the guy who bought your spacer and didnt get enough parts and information to finish it...

 

In case you missed my post, he was responded to or hasn't emailed cust service. We closed the 24th-27th so I'm assuming he has a response by now. On complicated installs or questions requiring back and forth question/answers, we don't use PMs or the forums. We have dedicated email/phones for that.

I don't need to check the vendor list although I'm in that section all the time. Maybe you could inform me on the cars built by other vendors competiing with the guys running ZZP. I wasn't aware that there were any M62 powered, turbo powered, LE5 powered, LSJ, LNF, Saturn, auto or stick cars running anwhere near times Matt, Ryan, Tim, or ZZP's cars are running. Maybe this is when someone posts a video of a track car with nothing cobalt about it save for the block and some stickers running 7's? We don't consider that a Cobalt or in any sense representative of what someone here is going to try and do.

The GM build book is interesting with some good info in it but it also has a lot of incorrect information in it.

 

Zoomer, my point is that you didnt come in here to talk to a customer who had a legit question. You didnt even acknowledge the original poster. You didnt refer him to your email or to your phone lines, or advise of what your holiday hours were or other reasons why he may not have recieved a response. And if the answers were/are given in this thread you never pointed out that the proper information was laready posted.


Zooomer, I wanted to address you personally, as someone who is not a customer but who sees the value in your products, and also as someone who apperently someone in your company has respect for. This is what I have to say:



Very few people honestly have any problems with your products.
Very few people will argue the accomplishments your shop has to its credit.
Yet for some reason there is a huge anti-ZZP around, and this obviously affects the way you and your employees interact with this community. This can be argued as a chicken&egg scenario, but in the end, when it comes right down to it, people have a problem with ZZP not because of your products, but because you, as well as those in your employ act like ******** on a regular basis.
People who have the answers at your company are hard to get a hold of (check the ECOTEC messages on the phone system for one from me, I tried innumerbale times last week to contact ZZP, and even left a message as instructed, and still have recieved no contact of any kind)

Its fairly obvious that your conduct has not hampered your profits amongst the ECOTEC platform consumer or surely you would have changed it by now, but perhaps you jsut dont truly understand the way so many people view you and your company. Your image sucks. Period. If you were to become more helpful, less argumentative, demeaning and sometimes even deriding, you would surely find an even larger audience for your product.

And please do not feed me the company line about you do business with whom you choose to business with. I know that all businesses have this right, but you make it seem like a mantra, and as though the customers are the truly privileged ones to be able to buy your product. I cant imagine the success you might achieve if somehow you could conduct yourself appropriately in public forum.

 

i give credit where it is due, some of your products are great.. i've bought about $600 worth of stuff from you guys, but u cannot compare these two cars. you want a realistic test on this item?

sit the LIM on the grill acting like the grill is the engine block so the bottom of the metal has full contact with the grill, then slide some bolts through the spacer so they contact the flange and the grill. put a beaker of hot water on it and watch it boil.

you're comparing an item that is completely segregated from the heat source, to one that is semi-segregating it. it's not going to be even remotely effecient compared to the 3800 one u have there... u can't compare them

 

(pops Popcorn) this might get good...

 

already has bro, already has.

 

I figure Maven summed it up well. I dont have anything to add. OH WAIT! I do have a link, an example of Zoomer doing research on a complex Forum issue:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2272398

 

I can't view the link since I'm on a gov't computer, but I will take a looksie at this tomorrow. Is it a copy and paste type of thing? Taking someone's theory and incorporating it as his own?

 

::sits down to watch::

 

The only people who seem to have a problem with ZZP or our image are:
A. The people who were considered leaders or pioneers around here before ZZP stepped up.
B. The people who automatically support certain members of group A under any circumstances.

It's funny how this quote often comes up. What never seems to be mentioned along with it is that Zoom was completely correct in the statements he posted in that debate. I can't understand why someone would choose to dig up a post where someone is merely looking for verification to support their claims, and then post a link as if it somehow discredits their statements. Whatever makes you feel better, I guess.

 

Saw that you-tube movie and while showing the difference in heat conductivity alu vs. phenolic, it's not really a realistic test for engine performance or IAT improvements.

But fact stays that aluminium conducts heat very well and about 4-5 times better than the steel bolts... (Look up thermal conductivity) And for a watercooled manifold our charger gets pretty hot when only cruising, so separating the alu surfaces should help... a bit...

Just do a normal road test without spacer and log IAT's
Fit phenolic, re-test and log again. Show difference here and voila.

 

i act like an ******* cause nobody can **** with me.

ZZP can act the same as well... cause nobody can **** their ****.

people have thin skin. whats the word im looking for...oh yea, 'butthurt'

that pretty much sums up alot of peeps on .net


hey maven... did you resend that tranny fluid?

 

Its not funny its pathetic that you will not respond to the OP and help him fix his sorry ass ZZP part that wont work for him that he paid you good money for.