The quest for 600whp
11-20-2013, 02:23 PM
#1
The quest for 600whp
Well I decided not too long ago when my car blew up running the TVS, since I was rebuilding I was going to go for big power.
Facts about the car for those who don't know:
Turbo swapped with PTE 5862
E85/ ID1000 injectors / DW300
ZZP block
Diamond 10:1
ZZP 4340
BS delete
Stock trans
Got tuned on WG pressure (9psi) by armcclure in early fall but due to a few issues I was never able to get retuned to see any power before it became winter time.
Options I have to supply the fuel I need-- Opinions welcome
BRFPS
Possibly a surge tank set up like japeatr
Bigger in tank pump such as the AEM or walbro 450
Bigger injectors
I have a set of zzp #82 valve springs I decided I'm going to throw in over the winter, when the turbo doesn't spool until 4-4500 you need to ride it as long as you can. I'm thinking I'll rev to 8k.
Additional parts for revving to 8k-- Opinions
ATI
MRB timing bolts
Right now this is simply a thread to get some good fuel discussion going. I hear people speak of building a real fuel system but no one has really talked about it until recently, japeatr and Lars
Facts about the car for those who don't know:
Turbo swapped with PTE 5862
E85/ ID1000 injectors / DW300
ZZP block
Diamond 10:1
ZZP 4340
BS delete
Stock trans
Got tuned on WG pressure (9psi) by armcclure in early fall but due to a few issues I was never able to get retuned to see any power before it became winter time.
Options I have to supply the fuel I need-- Opinions welcome
BRFPS
Possibly a surge tank set up like japeatr
Bigger in tank pump such as the AEM or walbro 450
Bigger injectors
I have a set of zzp #82 valve springs I decided I'm going to throw in over the winter, when the turbo doesn't spool until 4-4500 you need to ride it as long as you can. I'm thinking I'll rev to 8k.
Additional parts for revving to 8k-- Opinions
ATI
MRB timing bolts
Right now this is simply a thread to get some good fuel discussion going. I hear people speak of building a real fuel system but no one has really talked about it until recently, japeatr and Lars
11-20-2013, 02:33 PM
#2
Nice thread. Should bring some good discussion and will be fun to watch for updates. I'm going for something similar as well. I am going to push to the limitations of the ID1k's, ottp RSFS, and a single AEM 320 pump before upgrading. I am thinking about 550whp is where I will run out of fuel, but I may be way off.
ATI and Mr. B fasteners are a great idea as well, and valve springs are pretty much a must. You will be amazed at what a few hundred rpm can do for you.
ATI and Mr. B fasteners are a great idea as well, and valve springs are pretty much a must. You will be amazed at what a few hundred rpm can do for you.
11-20-2013, 02:39 PM
#6
Just curious, why do you recommend the stock cams?
If I run out of fueling, if its the pump, I am going to try the double pump setup. Its old school I know, but all my high hp evo and subaru friends run double pump setups and have had great success.
If I run out of fueling, if its the pump, I am going to try the double pump setup. Its old school I know, but all my high hp evo and subaru friends run double pump setups and have had great success.
11-20-2013, 02:41 PM
#7
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I'm doing dual Bosch 044 pumps with a surge tank. I'm shooting for 600-650.
I have at the moment
Zzp s256
1000cc inj
BRFS
Ported head
Stage 2 cams
82lb springs titanium retainers
Full 3" exhaust no cat
E85
Coming soon..
Block is mr.b sleeves/Tjolly girdle
Pistons diamond 10.5:1
Zzp rods
So looks like were both right in the same ball park. Good luck! And I look forward to your build.
I have at the moment
Zzp s256
1000cc inj
BRFS
Ported head
Stage 2 cams
82lb springs titanium retainers
Full 3" exhaust no cat
E85
Coming soon..
Block is mr.b sleeves/Tjolly girdle
Pistons diamond 10.5:1
Zzp rods
So looks like were both right in the same ball park. Good luck! And I look forward to your build.
Last edited by bmcc2584; 11-20-2013 at 02:42 PM. Reason: ..
11-20-2013, 02:56 PM
#10
I'm doing dual Bosch 044 pumps with a surge tank. I'm shooting for 600-650.
I have at the moment
Zzp s256
1000cc inj
BRFS
Ported head
Stage 2 cams
82lb springs titanium retainers
Full 3" exhaust no cat
E85
Coming soon..
Block is mr.b sleeves/Tjolly girdle
Pistons diamond 10.5:1
Zzp rods
So looks like were both right in the same ball park. Good luck! And I look forward to your build.
I have at the moment
Zzp s256
1000cc inj
BRFS
Ported head
Stage 2 cams
82lb springs titanium retainers
Full 3" exhaust no cat
E85
Coming soon..
Block is mr.b sleeves/Tjolly girdle
Pistons diamond 10.5:1
Zzp rods
So looks like were both right in the same ball park. Good luck! And I look forward to your build.
Last edited by 574; 11-20-2013 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-20-2013, 03:59 PM
#14
you need to decide what the car is intended for curves or straight line if its curves a surge tank is the best bet if its straight line you do not need a surge tank
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 a return sytem with rising rate reg or a brfs
5 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 a return sytem with rising rate reg or a brfs
5 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 11-20-2013 at 05:57 PM.
11-20-2013, 04:04 PM
#15
you need to decide what the car is intended for curves or straight line if its curves a surge tank is the best bet if its straight line you do not need a surge tank
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need a sump system at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a good chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need a sump system at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a good chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power
11-20-2013, 04:28 PM
#16
you need to decide what the car is intended for curves or straight line if its curves a surge tank is the best bet if its straight line you do not need a surge tank
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
And from what I gather, you say get cams in order to make power easier?
11-20-2013, 04:30 PM
#17
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you need to decide what the car is intended for curves or straight line if its curves a surge tank is the best bet if its straight line you do not need a surge tank
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
for straight line racing a surge tank is a waste when you launch the car where dose the fuel go? to the back of the tank you need to pump the fuel at the back of the tank or keep plenty of fuel in it. most of us are going to run out of pump before we run out of sump(if enough is in the tank)so what you need to look at is how to get enough volume of fuel to keep it fed
1 buy more then enough pump to do the job an o44 is not going to cut it look for bigger
2 consider increasing the line size to the rail to carry the volume needed and also you will need to increase the return line size. you don't want fuel backed up in the return side keeping the regulator from doing its job
3 get a set of injectors bigger then needed to do the job don't go nuts but a little bigger it is better then not enough
4 if you start having delivery problems due to the sump then its time to be happy as **** to where your at or put a cell in the car. if the fuel is setting at the back of the tank then you have nothing to refill the surge tank once the sump runs out
now why spin the stock cams to 8k they are good cams but they fall off at 7200 or sooner so why beat a horse that cant move anymore
there are 2 purposes for building a hot rod engine
1 to make it stronger
2 to make the power easier
so why set a goal that you got a chance your not going reach while beating on your car on stock parts and if you do look at how much harder it is on the engine and how much life you cut out on it by not making it easier to make the power. to make the engine reliable at high hp you need to make it easier to make the power
11-20-2013, 05:32 PM
#23
you launch the car the fuel runs to the back of the tank if you don't have much fuel in the tank if you pump the sump dry you have nothing to refill the surge tank with and when you pump it dry you run out of fuel
Last edited by mrbelvedere; 11-20-2013 at 05:49 PM.
