Dman

im fairly sure its a 3.0 pulley that comes with stage 2...which is about right with what other people on here are making power wise

JCswoosher2

i say we make stage 2 a bad word and not say it anymore. im going to get burned out on it before it ever comes out

campo165

well then i like your idea, get the stage one with an alternative pulley than the stage 2 cause thats just weak.

cvenom2122

larger injectors
77.9 mm pulley smaller pulley than stage 2
higher redline that tells all

selfinfliction

from one of the guys on the rl forums

i would say he has 350whp....think about the blower.. it takes 36hp to run at 10 psi... crank that up another 2.5psi and (using the difference between 5-10 psi = 2.4 hp per 1psi) it's going to suck up around 42hp just to turn the blower.

now... with the turbo creating the boost.. the blower is taking probably 5~hp just to spin because it doesn't have any resistance. so that's a 35~hp gain just from having the turbo on.
using the rough guesstimation of the average 225whp on the dynojets people are getting at 15% loss = 258bhp + the 35hp from the blower being freed up = 293bhp~

now almost double the psi coming into the engine with very little restriction from the turbo and you are going to gain alot more than 50hp..

i still have to say he's around 350whp... 350bhp is only around 300whp which would mean the turbo is only creating 60-70 whp at 21psi... and that i highly doubt that

i might be wrong.. but i don't think it's that far off

<edit> remember we're also talking about someone who has tuned gary gardella's car... i highly doubt he's running anything even remotely close to a stock ecu program

sheek360

I bet all of you 5 big ones that stage 4 will come out before stage 2!!!!!

JCswoosher2

its already got 1 major power adder. i doubt a turbo will add much. how much WHP did the mini cooper gain with its twin charged setup? 60-70 whp may be the best bet

selfinfliction

not true.. this is a twincharged mini with a garret turbo just like the twincharged redline and it's pumping out 300whp with a gt28r, the rl is using a bigger one.... you can see it's a little bit more than a 60whp upgrade

remember this is a 1.6L motor too. we have 25% more displacement.

300whp mini

there's plenty of them well over the 300whp range even with the small motors they have. it's not that hard to believe that a 2 liter twincharged motor is pumping out 350whp

djt81185

It impossible for the supercharger to lose all of its parasitic drag. it is a positive displacement design. it doesnt care what pressure the air is coming in cause it is going to compress it by the same ratio with every revolution. Therefore the s/c is always working. Now if say after the turbo come on full spool the ecm is commanded to open the boost bypass then it would lose all most all of the drag. But the boost bypass maybe to small to support that much air and may choke the motor. Either way unless the bypass opens the s/c is actually going to increase drag. Since the air is already denser it is going to be harder to compress thereby increasing drag.

Dan

This sounded correct when i wrote it lol....haha GO STEELERS!!!!

selfinfliction

that's why i said it would probably take about 5~hp to spin it.. it's not creating any boost so the amount of resistance is minimal

djt81185

Its going to have a larger drag than on a stock car becuase it is going to have to compress air that is already denser. This take more energy to do thereby increasing the drag from the s/c. I'm saying unless the ecm tells the boost bypass to open when the turbo is online the s/c is going to cause more drag than on a stock car becasuse it has to compress more dense air compared to a s/c that is not compressing prepressurized air. Though the twice pressurizing will creat insane amount of boost at low levels thereby making a better powerband which im sure will more than cancel out the increased drag from the s/c.

Dan

selfinfliction

the eaton doesn't compress the air. twin screw blowers do, roots style blowers do not. the blower is not working harder.

basic concepts of physics

^^^some suggested material

djt81185

http://www.gadgetonline.com/super.ht...arger%20works:

explanation of how different superchargers works

i was half right and half wrong. The eaton does not compress air in the supercharger as I implied...it compresses it into the intake manifold. Now here is where I am ultimately right. look at the charts for an eaton blower on

http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...argers/M62.asp

notice as the delta boost goes up the power required to drive the supercharger goes up. So by twin charging you are taking air that has been compressed...by a turbo and then using the s/c to cram it into the intake manifold. This makes boost pressures beyond 13 psi.. which increases the drag. (eaton stock oversupplies the engine with air so then it is now oversupplying the engine with an abundance of compressed air...basically ramming more air into the same space as before with the same airflow comsumption...increasing boost) The superchargers drag on the engine will only decrease if the boost bypass for the supercharger is open(effectively removing it from the airflow path). The above linked laws of physics apply...I know that...I'm an engineer...unless EATON does not know what they are talking about.

in otherwords as boost goes up do does the s/c's drag on the engine (documented on Eaton's site). Unless the s/c is disengaged from the induction process via boost bypass valve.

Dan

SS4LIfe

if this isn't the same stage two how come when they discribe the engine mods they don't say internals and cams and all that stuff, and from what i seen the twin charged RL in well into 300hp.

SS4LIfe

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...l%3Den%26lr%3D

300hp

JapEatr

iTrader: (9)

the build guide to 300 says 73 mm pulley

selfinfliction

that's from over 1 year ago with only estimates. that was back when gravana was doing some elaborate system of relocating the fuseblock and abs system etc...

many of the 1.6 LITER mini coopers put out over 300whp with an aftermarket turbo twincharge setup. and the m45 eaton if i remember correctly.. the turbo he uses is bigger and our blowers are bigger and we have more displacement

selfinfliction

dude.... you should really read some of those links about basic physics


by your logic, you're saying that if the blower's outlet was facing open air that it would create the same resistance as it would if it was operating on our car's now. it doesn't work like that.
simple terms:

blower is pulling air at atmospheric pressure levels and releasing it at atmospheric pressure levels.. it has very little resistance right?

blower is pulling air at atmospheric pressure levels and forcing it into an area that has a slower escape rate than entry rate (this is the boost) --the way the blower operates normally)

--now for the craziness eh

the turbo takes in air at atmospheric pressure levels, and pushes it into the blower so now the blower takes that pressurized air and moves it into the area that has a slow escape rate. so... the pressure on BOTH sides of the blower blades IS THE SAME. this would be the same as having the blower operate in an open enviroment or the first example i wrote.

it's basic physics...

NJBLUESS

Look, it seems everyone is trying to be too technical about this topic. I see 283hp to not be unbelievable. The answer seems simple to me:
Our engines rating, according to GM, is 205hp @ 5600 rpm. 5600rpm, remember this #.
GM's stage 2 is claiming 36 hp increase; 205 + 36=241, hmmm.
Now, Intense's stage3 kit laid down 270hp @ 6450rpm, now look at that dyno chart. Trace down the HP line to 5600rpm, it's around 241hp, isn't it? hmmm
Now, trace the HP line up to around where 6800rpm would be, this would place you around 280hp or so?
Our claimed 205hp from GM was low because the dyno stopped at a lower RPM than every one is measuring their HP. This, 5600rpm, is also where the stage kits were measured at to keep things consistant.
As far as the Time Attack car running a" Hybrid" Eaton, who is to say that it is a "Hybrid" for more power instead of the reason of reliability, spinning constant high RPM around the track?
The smaller pulley may not really add all that much more peak HP to the engine. Until I see testing and comparisson between a 3" and a 2.8"on the same car in a controlled manor, I feel the gains may be modest.
We cannot disprove or discredit any of these claimes until we try and test for our selves, but I do believe, those that are waiting on the stage kits from GM, will not be disoppointed.

Dman

yeah thats the one, thats the 2.8

AlphaJaguar5

Actually its a 2.874 which is closer to a 2.9 which is why I went with the Billetflow 2.9". That and the fact that BilletFlow Rocks

MarcS

The addition of stage 2 has the purpose of increasing torque more than adding hp.

Using a 2.8" after stage 1, with the addition of I/H/E should easily produce 270+ hp IMO.

eastcoastz

I would bet closer to 290whp.

EndZz

Does anyone have the Street Tuner Challenge episode? or know if you can dl it I never saw it.

selfinfliction

they replay the thing every week on sunday's on speed

i think there's like 5+ episodes or something