Rodimus_Prime

iTrader: (3)

So, been looking into some improvements and noticed this http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_...1015&catid=174

I've had issues trying to get 60s to play nice and idle in the past. Has anyone bought and installed this yet? Also in getting 80s to work I would imagine this is almost a must. What exactly needs to be changed in the PCM to get 80s to work properly?

Zach06CobaltSC

If your going any route I would go with ottp's return style fuel system. A whisper in the wind told me that the return style + 80lbers = better then stock idle. Also, how can 60lbers give you trouble? There really not that hard to tune for. As far as 80lbers idling, I will let you know when my motors back up and running. I am gonna go 80lbers + e85 probably.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

Zach: 80's and E85... trying to copy me after we chatted the other day?

A couple friends of mine have had NO idle issues on the 80's, one with and also one w/o returnstyle. As for the ZZP setup, no experience

Zach06CobaltSC

Teheheh no Tom, nah I dunno if I am gonna go e85 or not, but the extra money would be nice lol.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

I've been wanting to for a long time, but had no stations around until recently

Zach06CobaltSC

Are you gonna run just 80lbers or are you gonna use the return style also? Hop on aim bro.

Omnigear

iTrader: (4)

07 with 80s ?
since 07 starts with
an idle problem as it is.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

Stock fuel system. I'm not worried

Rodimus, sticking with the TVS? Is that why you are doing the 80's?

Zach06CobaltSC

He's staying with 80lbers because they will cool his tvs better....lol sorry that was dickish. I still recommend going with JUST 80lbers first and seeing if they idle as bad as your thinking they might. I have talked to many a people who are running JUST 80lbers and they aren't having an issue, granted the majority of them are on e85, but still. My 60lbers actually idle better then the 42lbers I once had in the car. But if I do end up going with 80s I will surely give a review.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

the return style fuel system has no advantages over the BRFP setup. It costs twice as much, it's more lines to run, it adds weight but in the end, they both lower fuel pressure at idle and raise it under boost.

this market is awash in un-needed mods. i had hoped that people would learn this when they looked at another forum that had been through all this. When that didn't work, I had hoped that science and links to physics would do the trick. When people still kept talking about the wrong mods I figured that setting every track and HP record with minimal effort would change people's minds.

here's a quote from a user "Worked out great i went form 11.8 AFR at 21lbs to 10.1 (possibly lower but guages dont go that low) so i upped the boost to 22.6 and the AFR is still at 10.1 Also it cleaned up the idle ALOT.

-Scott... "

there is a more in depth post in the redline forums about a users experience with it.

Zach06CobaltSC

"the return style fuel system has no advantages over the BRFP setup. It costs twice as much, it's more lines to run, it adds weight but in the end, they both lower fuel pressure at idle and raise it under boost."

One is made by zzp and one is made by ottp. That's a HUGE difference to some.


Also sounds like Scott is running a bit to rich lol, I would assume he actually LOST power doing that mod cool!

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

He has a thread about it. He was saying that before the BRFP, he was going lean. Then he added it and was rich so he upped the boost and was still rich. he was showing just how much more fuel it gave him. Car was tuned in the end back to an ideal AF ratio.

I can't post the link but it's Redline forums:
"So i have had this sitting around and finally got off of my ass to put it on (took all of 10 min) but instantly i noticed a difference. For those of you that have been following my build i was maxing out my injectors (60's) at 21lbs (356 HP) wit AFR of 11.8 if i turned up the boost even 1 pound it leaned out to 12.6 So i put the Boost refrenced fuel system on today and instantly the Idle smoothed out. I take it on a pass i noticed my old AFR of 11.8 was now 10.1 so i upped the boost a pound and a half to 22.6 LBS and still had no problem at all. So i just thought i would put this out here for anyone who might have been contemplating buying this. Its worth it. I will try to get IDC logs to compare to the old one so you can see the difference. "
The difference is in the forum, not the vendor or the part in many cases.

Case in point is when the forum repeats false information about parts time and time again. It's like the health care debate. If everyone things that the bill has death panels in it and you say "People are against it" It's not really an honest debate. Similarly here the myth that returning the fuel after the rail is actually doing something persists. The side saying it did was proven wrong over and over again, by results, by science, by outside sources and yet the rumor still floats around the forum like a fart in a closed room.

That's why I get so aggressive in my posting. We're group of car enthusiasts modifying cars with false ideas about how things work. Therefore everyone runs mid 13's on a car that should be much faster.

06black

80's were a sinch to get to idle well.

the linearity of them, at low PW, seems to be better then the 60's.


also, zoom.

quick question, why do you quote the 80's as the largest you can get(quoting your site)

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

Just courious Zoom,

What is the highest base you run on the brfs and lowest?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

It was a mistake to say that. The largest injector seems to be changing monthly these days...

Unless you're using E85, the 80's are probably larger than anyone could ever need. They'll support 700WHP and no one here is making 500.

We set our fuel pressure regulator and label it with a FP # before shipping to assist in tuning. We normally run around 42 IIRC at idle, top pressure varies by boost but most pumps aren't that great over 70-75. I think the pressure we run varies on needs of the application. we have a preset pressure (I'd have to ask Matt) and only adjust it when someone needs to. For example if you ran E85, you don't need to lower pressure at idle, all you need is a lot more up top.

We do have a larger pump we're using in E85 and builds like Ryans. It's in tank, high pressure, about 30% over stock, 40% over Walbro. Not sure why it's not on the site yet, maybe cause we haven't had demand? But that's another point to the above. The forum was telling people to buy walbros (until ZZP showed data that it flowed less than stock).

lsjwannabe

iTrader: (1)

I was asking more in terms of adjustability not pre sets so to speak.

Rodimus_Prime

iTrader: (3)

I'm not doing a return style, too much of a headache. I'm going to need 80s where I'm going. Just because something is made by OTTP im not convinced to buy it. I'm certainly not running E85.

Just want injectors that idle good and aren't so used up on duty cycle this seems like the best and easiest solution.

ebristol

iTrader: (4)

Trying to copy me... jk

On gasoline the 80s idled the same as 60s. On E85 there is no issue with the idle. Other then the fact that E85 takes a little longer to warm up.

You should get 79s or 80s. You won't run out of fuel with either of them on your setup.

I hit 100% IDCs on 80s and E85 on the stock TVS pulley. I have a 2.9" coming in the mail. I am interested to see if the injectors can keep up.

Area maxed out his 79# injectors on a 2.75" pulley and E85. He had to use his meth kit to add more fuel.