NJHK

Thanks for clarifying.

05sedan

did u happen to catch the cobalt on redline tv they was modding? injen sri,corsa catback gave them 16fwhp and almost the same torque...then they added nitrous :;cant remember size shot:: and got like 192fwhp and well over 200ftrq

FRIARPOP

upto 250 is stable without replacing too much, then the next stable levels are 400 and 600hp with lots of money and engine crap. I have a whole Cd, and book on how to get these gains on the 2.2 ecotech.

NJHK

Don't believe that whole 250 HP thing. Read my previous post:

zinner

It's going to take lots of expensive tools and machining to bring a stock 2.2 ecotec block up to specs where is can do the ~8500 RPM's to get close to 250 BHP.

The first S2000 made 240 hp and thats at 9k rpms

High HP on a N/A motor means super high revs. How can my 600 CC sports bike make 105 HP? 16k revolutions a minute

It's definetly a noble goal.

CivicKiller98

http://www.ecotecpower.com/forums/re...&i=3929&t=3929

read above, its been posted once already.

NJHK

Yup, and the downside is that there is usually a big change in torque in the process of revving so high.

IonNinja

I would be very surprised to see anyone hit 200whp NA period (crank is possible maybe) but regardless its going to be alot of work, money and tuning. And in the end you'd probably have some peaky almost non streetable car. Remember you have to gain 80 hp to the wheels just to hit 200whp. That is a crazy amount of power to have to be gained through NA mods.

A completely bone stock engine on just 7-8psi would match those power levels and probably come out at half the cost.

Just not worth it IMO...as said earlier. You need an engine that can move more air if you want to go NA.

Novajoe

People do these kinds of things all the time. I love taking a little 4cyl motor and just doing it up na, of course I have cylender boring and honing equipment along with a flow bench thousands in measuring tools, etc. Doing something up na like this is easy and cheap... as long as you have all the right tools on hand and you know how to do all the work yourself. It also doesn't hurt that I get all my parts wholesale through my business.

For the average guy who just wants to make a peppy lil sports car and who generally isn't going to do the work themselves, forced induction is the way to go. Slapping a turbo on and throwing the car on the computer and a dyno for an hour is much easier and cheaper than measuring bearing clearances, rocker ratios, cam lift, duration, etc. Alot of people think they can just bore out a block throw some forged **** in there and a big cam and the motor will scream. There's a lot of calculations and thought that goes into building an na motor, thus a lot of man-hours, so... a lot of money.

But honestly, either way you go will be a huge learning experience and a lot of fun.

Novajoe

don't believe everything you see on tv. While I'm not saying it's not possible, its also not unusual for a manufacturer to throw some green on the table for them to mess with correction #s on a dyno.

traviskearney

245 - 18% = 200. 200 wheel tops without turbo, super, or N20.

CivicKiller98

you keep saying this, and personally, i agree, there are a lot of people doing this.

the thing is that we dont want to try to push out 300whp on stock internals because gm, the manufacturer of the engine, has made the statement that the engine, with stock engine internals is good for a maximum of 250hp.

again, not disagreeing with you here, but not all of us are willing to take our chances.

CivicKiller98

245-13% = 213 for manual....or am i missing something?

ReMz

civickiller... u are taking this too personal.
from the posts you have been making you are instigating and lowering the maturaty of the discussion.

NJHK has made some really good points... you have aswell, but i dont see any reason to discredit him

in his defense, 1/4 times prove everything. for example, Car and Driver tested a modified 750hp (i believe), supercharged Z06 corvette running an 11.6 1/4.... i only had time to glance over the article while i was at work. you would think the car would run faster, but it had so much hp it just lit up the tires.

same goes for high rpm ricers (excuse the generalization). a torqueless ricer might put out some sweet hp numbers, but a 1/4 time prove the actual performance.

moral of the story, it is difficult and expensive to get an N/A cobalt to get high hp AND torque gains while still maintaning reliability (talking 250hp+ range). NJHK is absolutely right and he has done a great job explaining this. the least one could do is appreciate the time he spent to explain this.

NJHK

Thank You. It's most appreciated and I agree with the points you made as well.

NJHK

I respect what you're saying and you would be smarter to replace the engine internals to run a higher amount of boost for insurance like you said.

traviskearney

245 - 15% = 208 if you wanna be perfect. AND 245 - 23% = 188 if you add an all wheel drive system. But who's lame enough to argue about a 13 horse difference......oh wait.

traviskearney

With a 55 shot my car has 200whp. The only difference between my mods and theirs is a tb spacer and a ceramic header. I think those two mods can easily make 8 whp. I have no doubt that those were real #s.

CivicKiller98

13 hp difference isnt a small difference, especially when we are talking about building a car when every little ounce of hp would be needed.

i noticed you used that 13% figure in one of your threads so why is it 15% today?

Roadrunner

i havent been on in what feels like a month, and i actually took the 30 min to read every single post on here. coulda probably read it faster if i wasnt up till 5 studying.

anyways, doable or not, i think this is where things started getting ugly and why.
the reply.
i know CK98 personally so i may be a little biased here, but it sounds to me like NJHK jumped on him pretty harshly here, basically said that he was being a bit condesending. i think i would be pissed too if someone tried to put words in my mouth. maybe i read this wrong though, so i wont jump to conclusions.
i just noticed from this post on, **** got ugly.



doable? well travis got like 195hp, with header, exhaust, and an intake (i am excluding the tb spacer and nitrous) and there is still room to improve cams, timing, higher compression pistons, p&p, larger tb, possibly better intake manifold for the tb if its too big. then theres stuff that would be needed like some sort of engine management, injectors, fuel pump
so was it 13% or 15% drive train losses for fwd manual? i saw the thread of travis's and he used the number of 13% in guessing how much his car would make at the wheels if it was manual.
sorry for using you for this one travis, i know you have some good numbers N/A, thats the only reason.

NJHK

Understand that I was not trying to be any way attackful and I wasn't trying to put words in his mouth. If it sounded that way, I'm sorry but some of the things were explained well so I had to take what he was saying in the context that I thought he was saying it.

Also, things got uglier before that...lol

Roadrunner

i just reread, maybe it is because i know him, but i really dont see it

EDIT: i do see you two disagreeing though, but nothing uncivil.

traviskearney

The difference between 200 and 213 is nothing compared to the large difference between 200 and 250. Much like the large difference between my maturity level age 30 and yours...age 13. I am no longer discussing this, even if you say you analy rape my mother while pouring gasoline down my shirt.

JonyyB

Come on guys, this is getting out of hand here. Argue your side like adults or do it in private (AIM).
Personal attacks are not welcomed here