..But that's like saying why does the 2.2 get power from the 2.4 TB when it is much bigger than the 2.4 to LSJ.

I see what CordiaDOHC is saying.

 

So you're trying to tell me the LSJ throttle body makes more horsepower but have no before and after dynos as proof? I don't see how you make such claims.

 

What is the evidence that this will produce gains other than a before and after dyno run with the same car on the same dyno?

 

granted its a vendor selling a product but zzp did test the lsj tb on the 2.4 and report a gain.

But hows it so hard to see that on a full bolt on 2.4 it would help. Hell the taper of the adapter to the throttle body should help with flow just because of the current 64mm tb to the 66mm intake manifold opening.

And seriously? I mean when hondas come with a 62mm for their 1.8s making slightly less hp than a tuned and bolton 2.4 and you guys making less than 1.8 that has a 62mm tb when your using a 64mm tb. Cmon seriously? I mean a 65mm tb on a 210hp mustang helps them out. And hell the spoon throttle body for thondas is 70mm. Which does give the 1.8 B18C1/C3's a small bump in hp. Want to show evidence? Fine show me evidence it doesnt work that it costs hp on a 2.4 I mean honestly the way you guys talk maybe us 2.4 guys should upgrade to the 2.2 throttbole body.... I mean we want all the velocity we can get right? Even at the cost of flow!

For ***** sake guys its going up less than 3mm. If the 2.2 can benefit from a 6mm throttle body upgrade the 2.4 can handle going up 3mm....


the 2.2 has slightly less compression and slighty less displacement. And yet you guys use the 2.4 throttle body which by your own arguement might be a bit big! I mean cmon slowswap you side it yourself a 3mm increase is huge! And you guys did a 6mm jump!

The 2.4 with bolt ons and tune will benefit from an LSJ throttle body even if its a small gain.



From ZZP:

This will allow a 2.4L cobalt to bolt on a stock LSJ (2.0 supercharged) throttlebody onto their LE5 intake manifold.

The intake manifold on the 2.4L has a 66.5mm opening but the stock throttle body is only 64.6mm. This makes the throttle body a restriction to airflow. By using our adaptor plate, you can bolt an LSJ TB onto your intake. The LSJ TB is 67.4mm and our adaptor plate tapers this to match the intake manifold. The 10% larger TB setup will increase HP from 2-7 HP depending on how highly modified your car is.


hhmmm sounds like it helps to me!
https://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt...=988&catid=174

 

I know you hate me but damn dude, really. Honda heads come with large head ports of high RPM air velocity. They also have the cams to match it. And it benefits a 2.2 so much because your changing manifolds too. The throttle body is matching the intake manifold. You don't really see anyone putting a 2.4 throttle body on a 2.2 manifold. You need to make the components in your system match and flow well together. Considering torque starts falling off around 4,000 RPM and horsepower starts to fall around 6,500 RPM, why sacrifice the couple of torque for the couple of horsepower. Horsepower isn't everything.

 

Not all hondas have that though. Now granted the 62mm does come on the itr motor. But if your talking about matching components then you just finished my end of the argument since the LSJ tb is a closer match for the 2.4 manifold at least tb diameter wise. And not all hondas run high rpms.



D15s
H23s
J32s
J35s
F22s
F23s
B18Bs

etc are similar in rpm capability to the ecotecs out of the box.

Also keep in mind the 2.4 is a vvt motor which is a similar theory of that of the vtec design. My point is an LSJ tb on a stock 2.4 is a bit much. But on a bolt on 2.4 and tuned for the lsj throttle body that car will make more power. It wont be as bad as you think going up less than 3mm. I mean seriously look at how small 3mm truly is. Its less than that and it matches upto the manifold better which in theory could provide a smooth higher velocity high cfm rate than the 2.4tb can on the 2.4 manifold.

I do see your point. However if the 2.2s respond well from the 2.4 manifold and 2.4s with similar mods to the 2.2 still put out more power than that shows potential for using the LSJ manifold. Plus zzp proved it. Now lowend no one knows. And when ZZP comes out with the adapter plate and harness for the 08s I will gladly throw one on have my car tuned for it then hit the dyno. Then you can either say I told you so or offer up your apology. If im wrong I will do the same! Fair enough?

 

Your thinking about matching compenonents based on there size instead of based on desired powerband, size and air velocity.

Also the Honda's you listed use much smaller throttle bodies.

VVT and VTEC are not even close to the same thing. VVT is a timing change and VTEC is a cam profile change. iVTEC is the closest thing to VVT because it's a cam profile change and a timing change, but the cam profile change is still a huge difference.

In other words, VVT does NOT equal VTEC is theory, principal or anything else.

And 3mm sounds small, but if you read ZZP it's still a 10% increase. You need to look at how much more surface area there is when you add 3mm.

 

Ive looked into it. And I know theres a hydraulic style solenoid which is the vtec controller which switches over. But honestly it will be fine. ZZP saw a gain in a 2.4 and im spinning with an auto whether I floor or it or stall it out. And most of the time its till around 4500 rpms or so. So a small rise in the powerband wouldnt be a bad thing.
And as far as the vvt goes have you driven a 2.4? once they have a header and intake on them you can feel it pull harder above 4000rpms. (need to look at the tach to see the exact rpm). So a bit more breathing uptop with a good tune and the lsj throttle body is a good upgrade for a 2.4

Also I am aware that the ones I pointed out have smaller throttle bodies they are lower hp motors and many of them are non vtec. But also look at the displacement in comparison.

Also theres sub 300 hp motors out there with 90mm throttle bodies. It might come down to flow and velocity but its been proven that the 2.4 will make more power with an lsj throttle body. So whats the issue here?? it makes more usable power throughout a good portion of the powerband.

But lets use the B18c5 here. Its a 195hp motor (ITR motor) It has 10.5:1 compression and is a 1.8L and it uses a 62mm. The 2.4 has a 64mm and runs 10.4:1 compression and makes 173hp. Now with full bolt ons and tune the 2.4s are putting down 180-190fwhp. So lets look at your 2.2s since you seem to think going from a 58 to a 64 is fine for them but yet a 2.4 going from 64 to 66 is too much.

On average the 2.2s with equal mods to the 2.4's are around 30hp lower. And thats with the 2.4tb and im. Now yes theres a 2.2 putting down 180fwhp but hes got a lot of crap done and is still under the top 2.4 by 6whp. So if a 2.4 is putting down more power with the same mods on the same throttle body and is a larger displacement motor ontop of that then I think the 2.4 can benefit from the lsj throttle body as zzp has shown.

oh that 2.2 that nearly touched a 2.4 was NWAE Cobalt (tom) and he had....
clear image 4-2-1 header
clear image 2.5" catless DP
clear image 3" exhaust w/ magnaflow resonator and muffler
ebay CAI w/ aem dryflow air filter
Trifecta tune
MRZ lightweight alternator pulley
MRZ lightweight crank pulley (oem size due to stereo)
2.4l intake mani
2.4l TB
lsj injectors
stage 2 comp cams
Shaved cyl head .020"

2.2s
1. NWAE_Cobalt 180whp, 164wtq Verified DynoJet I, IM, TB, PH, 42s, C, H, DP, CD, E, P, T
2. IonFeright 178 whp, 210 wtq Verified N20, I, H, E, DP
3. Camopaint0707 175whp Verified Dynojet, H/DP/P/TB/IM/T/E
4. Copson20 163.15WHP, 150.20WTQ Verified DynoJet I, IM, H, DP, E, T, TB, C1.

1.REDFOCZ 186 whp, 177 wtq Verified Mustang Dyno I, TB, E, H, DP, T
2. dtabbs 181 whp, 164 wtq Verified Mustang Dyno I, H, DP, T, E

Now dynojet dynos have been proven to read higher as well. Mustang dynos typically run a bit on the low side. Which is why they are often referred to as dream killers

Now this in a real long about way is showing theres room for the 2.4 to breath a bit more than the 2.2. So argue it as much as you want. But zzp proved it. And considering the 2.4 still put down 13whp more than a 2.2 with head work cans cams shows that a slight loss or shift of tq would be alright. Though alot of props to NWAE on great numbers (didnt want him to think I was bashing on him).

So when zzp releases the adapter plate and wiring harness for the 08s I will be glad to buy one get tuned and dyno with it. (granted Im an auto so my whp wont be as high)

 

im not a 2.4 guy but volicity will increase your power over diameter. i never saw a dyno for a ls4 tb but some vendors claim 10hp (not sure if its band or peak) on their sites, i did almost 20hp down low in the band and 6.4 peak on a ported n polished lsj tb. link is on the 1st page to my graph