Ok,

so i've been doing a lot of reading lately and looking into things and I'm getting a good idea what i can expect out of this but I want more than brands trying to sell me a product for information. I'm hoping someone has already tried this but who knows. feel free to chip in with experience either way


I have the 2.4SS. It's usually run on low octane fuel. It's been tuned to run on either low or full by taking advantage of the knock retard and this work quite nicely. I'm looking into a way to get more performance out of my vehicle without paying the almost 4 bucks/gal for premium. So, that being said: I want methanol injection. I realize that adding it to the vehicle will effectively control detonation and increase the overall octane rating of whatever fuel I choose to go with. I know it's possible on on naturally aspirated vehicles, but the information I've found is in reference to these facts: it can be done on any na vehicle, and a lot of pump gas dragsters use it" I'm not running a pump gas dragster I'm just looking for a way to control detonation to advance timing and get more performance.

Any experience with this stuff? any experience with methanol that could help with this? Thanks for the info!

 

bump for the morning people

 

You probably won't be saving any money because regular+alchy still going to cost more than premi overall


But if you insist...bump for some answers

 

bump again, im interested in this as well

 

not saving money isn't a huge deal really (although it would be nice!) but answers, yes.

 

Then why not just tune for 91 or 93(w/e you have in the area) instead of running low test?

 

meh, i have my reasons. the car is tuned for it already. it's got a sort of "variable" tune I guess you could say. it works quite nicely but I'm looking at my options and the methanol is attractive not only due to the advanced timing it would allow, but safer/cooler engine temps, and more det. control. those things are extremely helpful I think (or at least it really seems) in prolonging the life of your engine.

but for informational purposes. don't assume i'm running low test, assume I'm running 91 octane (it's most common in my area) and go from there with the info, the octane details I can hammer out with my tuner.

 

Didn't assume, you said it not me

I dunno how much cooler you are talking too...the cam phasing doesn't take effect until the car reaches a certain coolant temp

 

The 2.4's already have a factory high and low octane tune. Basically when you run lower octane fuel the ECM pulls timing to prevent detonation. This leads to a loss in power and performance. The fuel mileage will also be slightly reduced on lower octane.

 

no no, wasn't saying that to be mean, I was saying hypothetically, assume I'm gonna just start using high octane (for informational purposes) sorry, I wasn't trying to say you pulled that outta thin air. I do normally run low octane fuel because it's cheaper and I go through a LOT of gas.

 

Dude you are talking like 2 dollars at fill up

Just use hi test and be done with it.

Meth is too much for this N/A motor

 

yeah, that's basically how my car is tuned now except the timing tables are adjusted and a few other things as well. but my thoughts are these:

1. i'll need to adjust the timing tables again for the methanol, right?

2. any way to add another timing table? (i.e. - methanol - high octane - low octane) I know NOTHING about this possibility, and doubt it, but it would be neat.

I see what you're saying about the price of high test, and you're not wrong per-se but I'm looking more for info on the methanol than a high test vs. low test kinda thing.

that being said... why do you say meth is too much for this n/a engine?



p.s. - if it makes a difference (i MIGHT, say MIGHT be running a turbo setup in a year or two, and I'm looking into planning ahead for that.)

 

I think you will over cool it.

It isn't a F/I car(namely further, a s/c car) where you IATs are going to be super high while cruising.

A good turbo set up wil yield LOWER THAN OUTSIDE AIR IATs...were as superchargers generally make more heat.

When/if you go turbo just make sure you get a KICKASS FMIC and go from there

 

good points all around there. let me ask you this; at what point do you think it would be beneficial?

 

High compression plus forced induction.

If you ran anything bigger than the Hahn S2 kit...but really that is a guess honestly.

I haven't logged my west coast car

 

so you think I'd see no benefit from being able to advance the timing much further than with 91 octane?

and over cooling the engine how? what effects would that have in a negative way?

 

You would have to use the high octane table for the methonol, but then your low table would still have to be for the 87 gas to be safe. I have mine tuned for an agressive 92 octane and the default 87 just incase I get knock retard.


I would highly recomend just using the 91-94 depending on what you can get. If you add F/I or nitrous then methonol may help.

E85 is another subject though. If you want to use that then you will need larger injectors and a re-tune.

 

Wow, I don't know how many times I see this and people must be getting the wrong infomation or something. Let me clear this up.

1. We all must be forgetting that colder = ?.... Oh thats right, higher air density. What does higher air density mean? Oh... more... power and better gas mileage? It's just like your cold air intake guys!

2. Just water injection alone would be benificial... It cleans the crap out of your valves and combustion chamber

3. Using Methanol injection increases the fuel grade. Oh sure, why not just pay 2 bucks extra at the pump right?
- Well if your like me, I have to fill up every 5 days but lets say a week.
2 x 4 = $8 extra a month
8 x 12 = $96 extra a year.

- BUT, where I live, it's almost a 6 dollar differance.

4. The average cost of Methanol is.... well about 2 bucks a gallon. Hrm... And depending on the settings of your injection kit. It could last you awhile! BUT, lets just say we use about 4 gallons a month. So, 8 bucks right?

So let me add this up so far on how much it would cost me over a year.

I said it's about a 6 dollar difference here between 86 and 91 octane.
$6 x 4 weeks in a month = $24
$24 x 12 months in a year = $288

Ok so I saved about $288 dollars a year. Just off of octane differences. Now, I got to buy the kit. The kit is from AIS.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...c25/index.html

The trunk kit is about $599.99 dollars. Plus shipping.. Eh... Lets say $650 dollars.

$288 saved
- $650 spent
-------------------
-$362 total

Uh oh, I'm negitive right now. But wait, Oh yeah! I save on some gas mileage! Lets say about 2 gallons extra... So that puts me about 12 extra dollars a month.

-$362
+ $ 12
-----------
-$350 total

Still negative... Hrm... Something I do that every should do is maintain your car. Taking care of your valve train and combustion chamber is part of that. Running high octane helps do that but about once a month I clean my internals with a can of seafoam from my local Checkers/Kragen. That costs me about 6 bucks a can. So in a year that costs me 72 dollars. But with an injection kit. It does a much better job of cleaning the internals, ect, ect..

So
-$362
+ $ 72
-----------
-$290 total

So im still about negitive on the amount. But then I weight in my other benifits like, longer extended engine life. Due to the cooling that the kit provides... I am strong for this kit. Cause my cold air intake cost me about $250 dollars and.... It improves power and gas mileage. About over a year you'd save $100 in gas?

But one thing I did not factor is the cost of the methanol. But you guys can figure that out. So about $-350 dollars after a year.

Any questions? =)

Btw, Heres a small list of people who sell Methanol, and you can ask them if you don't believe me.

Wolf Oil
444 Kettle Morraine Dr
Slinger Wis
262 644 5030
$1.99 per gallon


Hole Shot Engineering
6584 50th Ave N
St. Petersburg, Fl
727-546-3541
3.00 gallon 10/04

Bradenton Motorsport Park
21000 S.R. 64
Bradenton FL, 34202
941-748-1320
http://www.bradentonmotorsports.com
2.50 gallon 4/04

Corrigan Oil Company
744 East South Street
Jackson, MI 49203
517-937-4061 Salesman Steve Cell #
Minimum 55 Gal $88 quoted price to my driveway. 4/02/2004 + drum Deposit $?

NVR Racing
5161 N 124th St
Butler, WI 53007
(262) 781-5252
2.50/gal. 04/04. Minimum 5 gallons ($12.50). Sprint Car racing Methanol


Update for
Houston Raceway Park
2525 FM 565 South
Baytown , Texas

$3.00 a gal compared to $ 5.00 a gal 3 months ago guess someone made some extra pocket money 9/23/04


NEW ENGLAND RACING FUEL
John Holland / Mike Joy
271 Spielman Highway
Burlington, CT 06013
860-673-9555
$28 for a 5 gallon bucket. It's the Sunoco race stuff so It should be good quality. I'll post if I find some more sources.

Teegarden Motorsports Specialties
Rancho Cordova, Ca
and it's still $3 a gallon

edit... no longer carries
s-squared motorsports
3501 sunrise blvd. #8
Rancho Cordova, Ca
95742
(916)631-7440
justin@ss-ms.com

VP Racing
PO Box 3202
Terre Haute, IN 47803
They are just getting ready to move and I don't know the new address, call at 812-232-7253

Briner Oil Co.
325 Beck St.
Jonesville, Michigan, 49250
517-849-2144
fax.517-849-2143
800-451-4191
contact, anyone
2.68 gal.

Capital Raceway in Crofton
$3.00 a gallon

Socal Performance
9723 washburn road
downey, CA 90241
562862-9122
$2.05 a gallon (methanol)

*** Oil CO.
555 E 8th St.
Greeley, CO 80631
(970) 352-9208
(800) 660-2604
$15 for a 5 gallon bucket

AAI racing
5985 Lamar,
Arvada, CO 80003
303-422-3571
$2.50 a gallon

Teegarden Motorsports Specialties
11383 Pyrites Way
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
916 - 638 - 7223 (RACE)
Fax: 916 - 638 - 2885
Methanol $3.00/ga???

Maryland International Raceway "MIR" (Bud's Creek)

E&R automotive machine
205 W. north ave.
Villa Park, IL 630 279 5464
www.enrracing.com
Torco methanol 5 gallon bucket for $26.98

Craig Caulk Racing Heads
115 Avenue D
South Houston, TX 77587
(713) 947-6787

Lanier's Speed Shop
106 Pueblo Av
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80903 - 2118
(719) 633-1378
$2.75 a gallon.

Centerville Dragway
Track is 11 miles south of Russellville, Arkansas. Take Highway 7 south to Centerville, then go west on Highway 154 for 1 mile.
Quote of $2.50 per gallon.

Simons Petroleum
Industrial Road
Clarksville, Arkansas
Take 58 exit off I-40, go north 1 block to Industrial Road turn right just past Johnson Chevrolet Dealership.
Just got a quote of $2.00 per gallon for Methanol, less if bought by the 55 gal barrel.

McMurtrys Automotive
3204 B. Ave.
Gulfport, MS. 39507
PH# 228-863-4139
Theres also a place in Long Beach, MS. Someone said they buy 55 gal drums of methanol for $99!!!

Dons Hot Rod Shop
2811 N. Stone Ave.
Tucson, AZ 85705
602-884-8892
$3.40 a gallon

Smiley's Racing
2017 Peachtree Rd.
Balch Springs, TX 75180
Dallas, TX
I just called and I was told $2.50 per gallon for methanol. I will go up there later this week to buy some.

grand prix auto sports
methanol is 2.15 a gallon
tulsa oklahoma
phone# 1 918 836 8487

Fairfield CT
Grasmere Sunoco
3.50 a gallon for Methanol

ERC racing fuel
610 east lewelling blvd
san lorenzo, ca 94580
(510) 276-9334
$2.75 gallon

Conley's Performance Plus
1443-A Aldine Bender
Houston, TX 77032
Methanol $3.00 / Gallon

American Motorsports
4130 north orange blossom trail
407-290-6565
3.39 a gallon

Bowers Performance Racing Engines
117 Smokey Street
Fort Collins CO 80525
(970) 226-6040
Price $2.50gal as of 11/12/04

Bessemer Petroleum
Bessemer,AL
205-424-2970
$96 for a 55 gallon drum delivered to your door

 

I am interested in one of those kits on my car. The only problem is it violates NHRA rules.

 

quasi moda or something has his car running on e85 and it's supercharged and he's a 2.4 he's tuning with efilive

 

More air doesn't mean squat if you can't give enough fuel and spark for the amount of air.

If you are going meth...might as well use n2o to have a more efficient effect

 

If you pay 500+ dollars for meth, your out of your damn mind, i got my trunk mount kit for 300. And btw you can get meth for free if you live anywhere around a oil field company.

 

Which is why they invented something called OBDII and fuel maps.

It's the same thing as your cold air intake... what is it doing? Providing hopes and dreams?

Where did you get yours?

 

Wow your e-***** must be HUGE!




You go ahead and dump a bunch of slow burning fuel into your car without enough spark.

93 is plenty fine.

 

On a N/A engine that is mostly stock I don't think meth injection is worth the cost or hassles.
Only on the hottest days of summer will it make a significant difference.

Use the high octane fuel and tune first! Then maybe try meth if you are really into racing where you need the cooling effect!