Electronic Turbo/Supercharger.
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Electronic Turbo/Supercharger.
http://www.turbozet.com/TURBOZet.html
Twin Turbo Zet electronic supercharger.
any one wanna commet on this,
Before we look at the Twin Turbo Zet electronic supercharger, let's spend a bit of time looking at the concept of supercharging.
Boost
An engine inhales air that - when mixed with petrol - is combusted inside the engine. The greater the mass of air that the engine can inhale, the higher the pressures that will result from this combustion. Higher pressures result in more force on the piston during the power stroke, giving more torque output at the crankshaft. And a higher torque at a given rpm equals more power.
So that explains the impact of having more combustion pressure during the power stroke - but what about the other three strokes? Prior to the power stroke is the compression stroke, and prior to that again, is the intake stroke. On the intake stroke, the piston descends, creating a lower pressure than atmospheric. The pressure of the air outside of the cylinder is higher than the pressure in the cylinder, so air flows into the cylinder. And as we've already seen, the greater the amount of air that flows in, the higher will be the combustion pressures a few strokes later.
The amount of air that flows into the cylinder, compared with the cylinder volume, is called the engine's breathing - or volumetric - efficiency. In a 3 litre six cylinder engine, each cylinder has a swept volume of 500cc. If the cylinder breathes in only 400cc on the intake stroke, the engine is said to have an 80 per cent volumetric efficiency (ie 400/500 = 0.8 or 80 per cent). Volumetric efficiency will depend on lots of factors (including how well the ports flow), but let's say that the VE of the example engine is in fact 80 per cent. If this 3 litre engine is revving at 6000 rpm full throttle, this means that it inhales 7200 litres of air per minute (remember, one intake stroke per two rpm), or 120 litres per second. To put it in different units, each minute this engine consumes 254 cubic feet of air. To put that into context, a little 60mm diameter PC cooling fan flows only about 18 cubic feet per minute. So, just to flow the amount of air that this naturally aspirated, 3 litre engine needs, you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all....
Talking about boost, how can we improve an engine's VE? One way is to actively force the air into the engine, pushing it in with more than atmospheric pressure. If you shove in more air than the engine can consume, a boost pressure is developed. When the engine is being fed boosted air, VE can rise to 120 or 150 or even 200 per cent. And that spells good increases in power!
Supercharger Designs
Superchargers are used to force-feed engines with air - to create boost. There are three main designs of superchargers, which can be divided into two categories - positive displacement and centrifugal. In a positive displacement design, every revolution of the blower pumps out a fixed volume of air. Centrifugal types have an airflow which rises as the square of their rotational speed - like turbos, they are more like fans than pumps.
One type of positive displacement blower is the screw supercharger, which uses two rotors turning at different speeds. Because of the relative movement of the rotors, the volume of air trapped between the rotors reduces along their length, compressing the air through the outlet. Mazda has used an IHI Lysholm screw-type positive displacement blower on the Miller Cycle Eunos 800M (New Car Test: Eunos 800 Miller Cycle). Mazda picked this design because the screw-type blower is very efficient - it takes relatively little power to drive it. Centrifugal blowers use compressor wheels spun quickly through the use of step-up gears which can be planetary or conventional in nature. Centrifugal compressors are also very efficient.
So, how much power does it take to drive an efficient supercharger like a screw type? The most efficient type of supercharger, flowing 265 cfm and developing a boost of 11.5 psi, takes 14.5kW to drive it. Figures aren't readily available for centrifugal blowers, but they'd be of a similar magnitude. So the best blower design (the same type that's used on the Mazda 800) takes about 14,500 watts to drive it on a modest-sized engine. This power is derived from the engine via a belt connecting the blower to the engine's crankshaft.
But let's say that instead of using a belt-drive from the engine, we power the supercharger by using a 12 volt electric motor powered from the car battery. For an electric motor power of 14,500 watts, we'd need a current flow of about 1000 amps (14,500 watts divided by 13.8 volts = 1050 amps). So, to supply the current to drive an electric supercharger having the same airflow output as the most energy-efficient type currently available, it would take 1000 amps. To generate this much electrical power would require at least 8 heavy-duty alternators bolted to the engine. Furthermore, to handle this current, the wires connecting the battery to the supercharger would have to be enormously thick - perhaps brass or copper bars 10mm square would be needed.
Centrifugal compressors need to flow a large amount of air to develop boost. Cast alloy blades with complex curved blade designs are used, with the compressor wheel mounted within a special compressor housing having an appropriate aerodynamic design. Any centrifugal supercharger (electric or mechanically-driven) needs this type of compressor wheel if it is to efficiently generate the required airflow.
Background Summary
Superchargers need to flow very large quantities of air when they are used on a typical performance engine;
Those superchargers with the highest efficiencies that are used by major car manufacturing companies still require at least 10-20kW to drive them;
Developing sufficient power to drive from the car's electrical system a supercharger that is as effective as those currently employed would require enormous current flows, of the 1000+ amp magnitude.
Centrifugal supercharger compressors need to be large and sophisticated in design if they are to have good efficiency.
The Twin Turbo Zet
Manufacturer's Claims:
Increases engine acceleration power up to 30 per cent
Fuel savings up to 30 per cent
Reduces exhaust emissions up to 30 per cent on gasoline engines depending on its condition
Reduces engine noise and vibrations
2 year limited warranty against defects
Value-priced compared to mechanical turbocharger
Maintenance-free
Construction:
Plastic housing with 60mm inlet and outlet tubes
Two plastic-bladed, 55mm diameter electric fans with integral 30mm diameter electric motors; appearing to the uninformed to resemble PC cooling fans
Light-gauge hookup-type wire
Twin Turbo Zet electronic supercharger.
any one wanna commet on this,
Before we look at the Twin Turbo Zet electronic supercharger, let's spend a bit of time looking at the concept of supercharging.
Boost
An engine inhales air that - when mixed with petrol - is combusted inside the engine. The greater the mass of air that the engine can inhale, the higher the pressures that will result from this combustion. Higher pressures result in more force on the piston during the power stroke, giving more torque output at the crankshaft. And a higher torque at a given rpm equals more power.
So that explains the impact of having more combustion pressure during the power stroke - but what about the other three strokes? Prior to the power stroke is the compression stroke, and prior to that again, is the intake stroke. On the intake stroke, the piston descends, creating a lower pressure than atmospheric. The pressure of the air outside of the cylinder is higher than the pressure in the cylinder, so air flows into the cylinder. And as we've already seen, the greater the amount of air that flows in, the higher will be the combustion pressures a few strokes later.
The amount of air that flows into the cylinder, compared with the cylinder volume, is called the engine's breathing - or volumetric - efficiency. In a 3 litre six cylinder engine, each cylinder has a swept volume of 500cc. If the cylinder breathes in only 400cc on the intake stroke, the engine is said to have an 80 per cent volumetric efficiency (ie 400/500 = 0.8 or 80 per cent). Volumetric efficiency will depend on lots of factors (including how well the ports flow), but let's say that the VE of the example engine is in fact 80 per cent. If this 3 litre engine is revving at 6000 rpm full throttle, this means that it inhales 7200 litres of air per minute (remember, one intake stroke per two rpm), or 120 litres per second. To put it in different units, each minute this engine consumes 254 cubic feet of air. To put that into context, a little 60mm diameter PC cooling fan flows only about 18 cubic feet per minute. So, just to flow the amount of air that this naturally aspirated, 3 litre engine needs, you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all....
Talking about boost, how can we improve an engine's VE? One way is to actively force the air into the engine, pushing it in with more than atmospheric pressure. If you shove in more air than the engine can consume, a boost pressure is developed. When the engine is being fed boosted air, VE can rise to 120 or 150 or even 200 per cent. And that spells good increases in power!
Supercharger Designs
Superchargers are used to force-feed engines with air - to create boost. There are three main designs of superchargers, which can be divided into two categories - positive displacement and centrifugal. In a positive displacement design, every revolution of the blower pumps out a fixed volume of air. Centrifugal types have an airflow which rises as the square of their rotational speed - like turbos, they are more like fans than pumps.
One type of positive displacement blower is the screw supercharger, which uses two rotors turning at different speeds. Because of the relative movement of the rotors, the volume of air trapped between the rotors reduces along their length, compressing the air through the outlet. Mazda has used an IHI Lysholm screw-type positive displacement blower on the Miller Cycle Eunos 800M (New Car Test: Eunos 800 Miller Cycle). Mazda picked this design because the screw-type blower is very efficient - it takes relatively little power to drive it. Centrifugal blowers use compressor wheels spun quickly through the use of step-up gears which can be planetary or conventional in nature. Centrifugal compressors are also very efficient.
So, how much power does it take to drive an efficient supercharger like a screw type? The most efficient type of supercharger, flowing 265 cfm and developing a boost of 11.5 psi, takes 14.5kW to drive it. Figures aren't readily available for centrifugal blowers, but they'd be of a similar magnitude. So the best blower design (the same type that's used on the Mazda 800) takes about 14,500 watts to drive it on a modest-sized engine. This power is derived from the engine via a belt connecting the blower to the engine's crankshaft.
But let's say that instead of using a belt-drive from the engine, we power the supercharger by using a 12 volt electric motor powered from the car battery. For an electric motor power of 14,500 watts, we'd need a current flow of about 1000 amps (14,500 watts divided by 13.8 volts = 1050 amps). So, to supply the current to drive an electric supercharger having the same airflow output as the most energy-efficient type currently available, it would take 1000 amps. To generate this much electrical power would require at least 8 heavy-duty alternators bolted to the engine. Furthermore, to handle this current, the wires connecting the battery to the supercharger would have to be enormously thick - perhaps brass or copper bars 10mm square would be needed.
Centrifugal compressors need to flow a large amount of air to develop boost. Cast alloy blades with complex curved blade designs are used, with the compressor wheel mounted within a special compressor housing having an appropriate aerodynamic design. Any centrifugal supercharger (electric or mechanically-driven) needs this type of compressor wheel if it is to efficiently generate the required airflow.
Background Summary
Superchargers need to flow very large quantities of air when they are used on a typical performance engine;
Those superchargers with the highest efficiencies that are used by major car manufacturing companies still require at least 10-20kW to drive them;
Developing sufficient power to drive from the car's electrical system a supercharger that is as effective as those currently employed would require enormous current flows, of the 1000+ amp magnitude.
Centrifugal supercharger compressors need to be large and sophisticated in design if they are to have good efficiency.
The Twin Turbo Zet
Manufacturer's Claims:
Increases engine acceleration power up to 30 per cent
Fuel savings up to 30 per cent
Reduces exhaust emissions up to 30 per cent on gasoline engines depending on its condition
Reduces engine noise and vibrations
2 year limited warranty against defects
Value-priced compared to mechanical turbocharger
Maintenance-free
Construction:
Plastic housing with 60mm inlet and outlet tubes
Two plastic-bladed, 55mm diameter electric fans with integral 30mm diameter electric motors; appearing to the uninformed to resemble PC cooling fans
Light-gauge hookup-type wire
Senior Member
Joined: 07-02-06
Posts: 1,329
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From: DFW
I dunno about you but it looks pretty dang funny to me. Those may be 80mm computer case fans. Lol.
You won't get any PRESSURE from them as a matter of fact in a normal intake for a car they would OBSTRUCT the flow.
But what is the cfm on them? I could use a new fan for my processor heat sink.
You won't get any PRESSURE from them as a matter of fact in a normal intake for a car they would OBSTRUCT the flow.
But what is the cfm on them? I could use a new fan for my processor heat sink.
Senior Member
Joined: 02-21-06
Posts: 3,454
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by Tomtwtwtw
If you read his post, he's basically showing how completely useless this product is...so yes, the product itself is a joke.
Senior Member
Joined: 03-30-06
Posts: 5,489
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From: Chandler, AZ
Originally Posted by PpAzZ1101
Oh I read it... I just meant is the website/product itself a joke. This is even more ridiculous than the turbonator.
Rick
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Joined: 06-21-06
Posts: 91
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From: Dickinson, Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 03-21-06
Posts: 1,098
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From: Mississauga, Ontario
i cant believe that to this day people still market these things and QUESTION if they actually work...i dont get it...ive seen many of these posts (especially the e-bay "chip mods") on this forum. are people really that stupid?
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
Senior Member
Joined: 02-21-06
Posts: 3,454
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by HiSpdPursuit
i cant believe that to this day people still market these things and QUESTION if they actually work...i dont get it...ive seen many of these posts (especially the e-bay "chip mods") on this forum. are people really that stupid?
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
And this isn't making our community look stupid. No one here is buying this idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was put on here for a good laugh. Lighten up.
Senior Member
Joined: 07-02-06
Posts: 1,329
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From: DFW
Originally Posted by HiSpdPursuit
i cant believe that to this day people still market these things and QUESTION if they actually work...i dont get it...ive seen many of these posts (especially the e-bay "chip mods") on this forum. are people really that stupid?
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
the cobalt is a more performance orientated car...which technically you SHOULD have some knowledge of automotive mechanics and engineering to own one.
if you at least have the slightest bit of question in your head that these things may work i suggest you buy a kia or a daewoo or suzuki swift and stick with the point A to B cars.
STOP WITH THESE MORONIC THREADS it makes this community look stupid.
BTW...those "boosting" fans are off of your run of the mill computer....
Hello Mr Hostility... take a breath man.
Yea they are computer fans. I think that is too damn funny....
makes me tempted to market a bladder booster kit for a car that runs by compressing and refilling a air bladder to BLOW air into your motor for quick BOOSTS of power. Hehe... Much like making a forge hotter with an injection of pure cold O2!
Senior Member
Joined: 02-09-06
Posts: 626
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From: Abita Springs, Louisiana
Alright you bunch of haters 
,
This thing really does work! The reason it's $300 is that it comes with two 1/4 mile extension cords - 1 for each fan. You just have to "over-volt" those babies a little.
Hey, it only works once, but nobody's perfect, right?
Now they just need to design one for the exhaust to suck those nasty exhaust gasses right out of the engine! This would allow the use of smaller diameter exhaust pipes to save weight.
Do you think I could get a patent?
,This thing really does work! The reason it's $300 is that it comes with two 1/4 mile extension cords - 1 for each fan. You just have to "over-volt" those babies a little.
Hey, it only works once, but nobody's perfect, right?
Now they just need to design one for the exhaust to suck those nasty exhaust gasses right out of the engine! This would allow the use of smaller diameter exhaust pipes to save weight.
Do you think I could get a patent?
Senior Member
Joined: 05-17-06
Posts: 872
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From: Denver Metro
There's an early '70's Alfa running around Denver with a real electric supercharger. The blower looks like a Paxton/Vortec like the Mustang guys use, except instead of being belt driven it's powered by a 24 volt military surplus aircraft electric motor. He runs it with twin car batteries and some clever wiring to get both batteries to charge and only one to run the rest of the car. It puts out about 5 PSI - enough to add probably 25-35 rear wheel HP. I've talked to guys that have ridden in it and the difference is actually noticable. Seemed to me to be a lot of work for such an oddball system, but there are advantages. No oil or exhaust plumbing, no engine brackets or engine drag from a belt driving it. And it's rigged somewhat like a NOS system - it only runs when it's armed and when the throttle is to the floor.
So I know that an "electric" supercharger is possible, and can be made to work. But for the cost and trouble, why?
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Joined: 05-09-06
Posts: 2,173
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From: .
Originally Posted by LewiSS
There's an early '70's Alfa running around Denver with a real electric supercharger. The blower looks like a Paxton/Vortec like the Mustang guys use, except instead of being belt driven it's powered by a 24 volt military surplus aircraft electric motor. He runs it with twin car batteries and some clever wiring to get both batteries to charge and only one to run the rest of the car. It puts out about 5 PSI - enough to add probably 25-35 rear wheel HP. I've talked to guys that have ridden in it and the difference is actually noticable. Seemed to me to be a lot of work for such an oddball system, but there are advantages. No oil or exhaust plumbing, no engine brackets or engine drag from a belt driving it. And it's rigged somewhat like a NOS system - it only runs when it's armed and when the throttle is to the floor.
So I know that an "electric" supercharger is possible, and can be made to work. But for the cost and trouble, why?
lol he adds 25-35 rwhp AND probably 200 pounds...way to make the car slower lol.
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Joined: 11-16-05
Posts: 159
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From: Sunrise, Florida
Hey man...thanks for the good laugh!
However, I am not sure if everyone knows this about the model number of the SS/SC's superchager. M-62 actually has a meaning. It represents the cubic inch displacement of the supercharger...62 cubic inch displacement. Just like the Eaton M-90 is 90 cubic inches displacement.
I believe that at 10psi, non-intercooled, 14,000rpm blower speed, the M-62 puts out approx. 440 cfm (per Eaton's website). Numbers would increase slightly with intercooling and more boost (as in the SS/SC application). THAT IS A LOT OF COMPUTER COOLING FANS!
However, I am not sure if everyone knows this about the model number of the SS/SC's superchager. M-62 actually has a meaning. It represents the cubic inch displacement of the supercharger...62 cubic inch displacement. Just like the Eaton M-90 is 90 cubic inches displacement.
I believe that at 10psi, non-intercooled, 14,000rpm blower speed, the M-62 puts out approx. 440 cfm (per Eaton's website). Numbers would increase slightly with intercooling and more boost (as in the SS/SC application). THAT IS A LOT OF COMPUTER COOLING FANS!
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Joined: 01-03-06
Posts: 702
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From: Canada
you know, every time i see a post or a thread preaching how good these things are, i cant help but think that the ones that are promoting this garbage are the ones that are selling them....
a fan in your intake tract will not add hp, there are electrical superchargers that DO work, but they are well over $1000 without batteries, and for that money, nobody wants to the extra weight of the batteries and usually decide on a REAL supercharger over the alternative.
+1 for thanks for the laugh.
a fan in your intake tract will not add hp, there are electrical superchargers that DO work, but they are well over $1000 without batteries, and for that money, nobody wants to the extra weight of the batteries and usually decide on a REAL supercharger over the alternative.
+1 for thanks for the laugh.
lol, those arnt even good pc fans. I just threw 3 of those in the trash the other day....hummm..... maybe i should start a web site selling resitors as chips and case fans as turbos. Kill 2 birds with one stone, get rid of my old **** and make some money doing it...lol...jk or am I?
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Joined: 03-30-06
Posts: 5,489
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From: Chandler, AZ
I am curious, though, to see what an electric s/c would do on a hybrid car, like the Civic or Prius...they already have the enormus battery to draw power from. Probably not worthwhile, but curious nonetheless.
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Joined: 02-09-06
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From: Abita Springs, Louisiana
Originally Posted by Tomtwtwtw
I am curious, though, to see what an electric s/c would do on a hybrid car, like the Civic or Prius...they already have the enormus battery to draw power from. Probably not worthwhile, but curious nonetheless.
Let's say it added about 50lbs for an over-volted motor, and a light-weight centrifugal sc setup. You already have the high-voltage batteries and charging system to make the system efficient. 50lbs/25hp = a great trade.
If the OEM's don't choose to build a hybrid with one, it seems like a great aftermarket item that someone like Thomas Knight could capitalize on. If I owned a hybrid, I'd be the first one in line to add another 25 or so ponies on to that dog - I mean my highly fuel-efficient, environmentally concious, uh, boat anchor.
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