My build wants your opinion
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From: OKC
My build wants your opinion
So I want the car to be able to handle about 350hp. This is what I've come up with so far:
Cometic Headgasket
ARP headstuds
Upgraded Rods (company not decided yet)
10.0:1 pistons
Neutral Balance shafts
CompCams camshafts
Ferrea valve spring kit
Spec Stage 3+
Fidanza flywheel
All billet and poly mounts
Port and Polish head
UltraRev Driveshaft shop axles
Like I said this is what I've come up with and half this stuff is ordered already. I'm planning this build this coming spring. Can anyone think of anything else that is a necessity to this engine being built? any inputs will be appreciated
Cometic Headgasket
ARP headstuds
Upgraded Rods (company not decided yet)
10.0:1 pistons
Neutral Balance shafts
CompCams camshafts
Ferrea valve spring kit
Spec Stage 3+
Fidanza flywheel
All billet and poly mounts
Port and Polish head
UltraRev Driveshaft shop axles
Like I said this is what I've come up with and half this stuff is ordered already. I'm planning this build this coming spring. Can anyone think of anything else that is a necessity to this engine being built? any inputs will be appreciated
Last edited by RedSSBaltSC; Dec 26, 2006 at 11:41 PM.
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From: OKC
hmmm, 93 won't work? I was looking at the 10:1 intense has, but I couldn't find any rods to go with them. I found the 10.5s on CED and they have rods that are made for them. I'll have to do some more research. thanks
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by RedSSBaltSC
hmmm, 93 won't work? I was looking at the 10:1 intense has, but I couldn't find any rods to go with them. I found the 10.5s on CED and they have rods that are made for them. I'll have to do some more research. thanks
As far as your build, if you're staying N/A aiming for 350...sorry but it's not going to happen on a build like this. So before I jump to conclusions, are you boosting? If so, what form?
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From: OKC
Originally Posted by NJHK
The rods would be the exact same. The point of high compression pistons is that they are larger in height than stock sized pistons (closer the top of the piston is to the bottom of the valves, the higher the compression).
As far as your build, if you're staying N/A aiming for 350...sorry but it's not going to happen on a build like this. So before I jump to conclusions, are you boosting? If so, what form?
As far as your build, if you're staying N/A aiming for 350...sorry but it's not going to happen on a build like this. So before I jump to conclusions, are you boosting? If so, what form?
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by RedSSBaltSC
I understand the CR thing, but the pin size of the Intense pistons haven't matched any rods i've found yet. The stock rods have been proven over 300, but I don't want to take the chance and the engines only coming out once. I don't plan on hitting 350 with this, I plan on this being able to handle 350. I still haven't decided how to get there, twinscrew, twincharged,...something more than the stock M62. With an 8k red line I don't plan on any smaller than a 2.9" on the M62.
Anyways, recognize the temperature of your combustion chamber and the chances of knock occuring with high compression. You're going to need to make sure you can keep rich more often, upgrade your aftercooling system and possibly look into adjusting your ignition timing as well. Colder plugs wouldn't hurt either.
Basically, as much as you're attempting to gain power from a higher compression, you're also going to need to monitor and prevent anything wrong from happening...mainly heat soaking which could get as bad to cause severe knocking (detonation).
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From: OKC
Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger
If you go with that setup, you'll be over 400 whp. Rice Eater on the RL forums dynoed 425 with pretty much the same setup.
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From: OKC
Originally Posted by NJHK
Anyways, recognize the temperature of your combustion chamber and the chances of knock occuring with high compression. You're going to need to make sure you can keep rich more often, upgrade your aftercooling system and possibly look into adjusting your ignition timing as well. Colder plugs wouldn't hurt either.
Basically, as much as you're attempting to gain power from a higher compression, you're also going to need to monitor and prevent anything wrong from happening...mainly heat soaking which could get as bad to cause severe knocking (detonation).
Basically, as much as you're attempting to gain power from a higher compression, you're also going to need to monitor and prevent anything wrong from happening...mainly heat soaking which could get as bad to cause severe knocking (detonation).
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by RedSSBaltSC
I planned on the GM dual pass cooler and a bigger heat exchanger. I wan't planning on a water/meth kit, but may think about adding that to my checkbook nightmare of a list. I was planning on a oil pressure gauge and not sure about the second...would you say IAT be the next best to monitor? Would adjustable timing gears be a good idea? I haven't been able to talk to my mechanic friend that's doing the build with me in a while, so i haven't asked him about these things yet.
As far as the gauge, get the AeroForce gauge.
Also, if AeroForce doesn't show these, then get these:
1. Coolant Temperature (temp fo the coolant for your aftercooler)
2. Wideband
I'll try and think of some more important things to monitor. Oil Pressure isn't that necessary to really watch over in your setup...on a turbocharged system it would cause you're using the oil as a lubricant for the center section of the turbocharger and the pressure is important to know cause too much blow a oil seal or too little oil will cause improper lubrication and internal damage.
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From: Earth
4k, where are you guys getting these low numbers I spent 9k and only about 2k was due to fuuck ups
dont kid yourself add in 1-2000 for things that break as most of the stuff on this motor is ******* junk id take a 4g63 motor over my ecotec anyday. I even looked into swapping an extra one i have in.
I broke cam sprockets, bolts(torqued correctly) oil squirter was removed perfectly and tried to reinstall it and bam its stripped beyond repai and heilicoil doesnt make a kit, looked for a new banjo bolt to go to 10-1.25 instead on the 10.1 that it is.
You will run into problems with local shops and I live in a very race oriented area, Also look into some new sleeves to if you want to keep everything safe.
I would do what I did to pick up a little 7" LCD and mount it on your dash, connect it to yourlaptop and display the HPtuners info on it, best choice i made by far this entire build
Also becareful with your transmission, mine was not dropped kicked abused or anything done wrong with it and upon me restarting my car I have no 5th gear(I am looking into a Saab 6 speed tranny swap here soon
dont kid yourself add in 1-2000 for things that break as most of the stuff on this motor is ******* junk id take a 4g63 motor over my ecotec anyday. I even looked into swapping an extra one i have in.
I broke cam sprockets, bolts(torqued correctly) oil squirter was removed perfectly and tried to reinstall it and bam its stripped beyond repai and heilicoil doesnt make a kit, looked for a new banjo bolt to go to 10-1.25 instead on the 10.1 that it is.
You will run into problems with local shops and I live in a very race oriented area, Also look into some new sleeves to if you want to keep everything safe.
I would do what I did to pick up a little 7" LCD and mount it on your dash, connect it to yourlaptop and display the HPtuners info on it, best choice i made by far this entire build
Also becareful with your transmission, mine was not dropped kicked abused or anything done wrong with it and upon me restarting my car I have no 5th gear(I am looking into a Saab 6 speed tranny swap here soon
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From: OKC
Thanks for all the inputs, it gives me more to think about and expect. I'm doing this build with a couple GM mechanics in a dealership shop. More importantly they are mechanics I trust.
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Originally Posted by sunfirejoe
id also look at getting a neutral balance shaft delete kit, 
just my 2 cents, itll take aboutn 9 lbs off the rotating assembly and keeps your water pump
just my 2 cents, itll take aboutn 9 lbs off the rotating assembly and keeps your water pump
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From: Mesa, AZ
Originally Posted by RedSSBaltSC
With the M62? What size pulley and did he have an 8k redline? I wouln't expect that much HP from that little bit. I was thinking this plus the 2.9" would put me just over 300.
Originally Posted by Blown 4-banger
From what I understand, he was running a 2.6" pulley, and reving to 7800. Oddly enough, thats what RPM he snapped his crank in half
personally, i'd go with a ferra valve kit instead of the bates,...personal preference, but ferra kit somes with guides, springs, n everything else you need
SMG auto had their ecotec relining at 8k RPMs and i talked to him a lot about what he did, n heres what he said
I personally think two of the biggest things, if you plan to run 8,000 rpm RELIABLY,that you should change are the valve springs and the neutral balance shafts. I would recommend the Ferrea Valve springs, retainers, and the spring locators. That is what we sell and what we personally use in our race motors. The valve guides do not need to be changed. I would reccomend the Bates Balance shafts, we also sell those and use them in our race motors. Aside from that, I would not recommend changing the cam shafts untill you know whether you are going forced induction or not. You do not NEED them to run up to 8,000 rpm and would recommend forgoing them until later. Also, you do not NEED pistons to run 8,000 rpm either. However, i would recommend changing the rods. The factory rods are pretty dinky, and I personally dont know how long they will hold up to 8,000 rpm. We changed the rods and left the stock pistons in one of our race motors and had no problem with the rpm. The only other thing I would recommend to you would be adjustable cam gears. it will allow you some adjustablility to bring in some more power without a cam change and will allow you to shift the power band to work best with the higher RPM range.
Hopefully this helps. The products I mentioned are the ones i know for sure work and have been reliable, 1. because we use them in our motors, and 2. because we have sold the products and have history on them from other users. There may be some others that will work, but those are the ones we have experiences with. If you have any further questions, dont hessitate to call me at 774-573-0279. Most of all the products i mentioned you can see on my site aswell if you are curious. Hope this info help. Talk to you soon.
Hopefully this helps. The products I mentioned are the ones i know for sure work and have been reliable, 1. because we use them in our motors, and 2. because we have sold the products and have history on them from other users. There may be some others that will work, but those are the ones we have experiences with. If you have any further questions, dont hessitate to call me at 774-573-0279. Most of all the products i mentioned you can see on my site aswell if you are curious. Hope this info help. Talk to you soon.
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
Originally Posted by HunterKiller98
really? i thought our cranks were good up to 500HP....
Originally Posted by RedSSBaltSC
Already planning on it, its on my list.
acutally what u have stated is new neutral balance shafts, so in other words ur going with aftermarket ones, im talking about a delete kit
cuz my POV u looked at JBP site, world most expensive parts retailer
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
HunterKiller, I just read more into that statement. The guy he was talking about was producing 425 WHP or so. If you do an estimation of say even 12% drivetrain loss and then remember it takes power to make power with an supercharger, so he was more than likely producing about an overall 500 Crank Horsepower or something in that vacinity.