wesmanw02

Okay... but how many people on this forum (or any normal car forum) drive funny cars, dragsters, and pro stock cars?? Chances are, ZERO

Those vehicles are the extreme minority. In a normal car, a manual transmssion is just a better choice than an automatic, unless of course you live in the city.

Also, a torque converter automatic will never put power to the ground more efficiently than a traditional manual transmission with a clutch. Its impossible, due to the fact that torque converters are always slipping by design, whereas in a manual there is a direct connection between the engine and the drive wheels

betterthanbad

Why would living in the city affect your choice?????

thehemi

Top Fuel, and probably Funny Cars, do not use automatics either.
I believe they use a direct drive with just a bunch of cluthes that
they burn up going down the track. No shifting is involved at all.

Chevy4Life85

In the city an AUTO is easier becuase its one less thing to worry about... so you can concentrate on not getting hit by a taxi.

thehemi

And manuals were built for performance? I do not know the history, but they were probably made before they knew how to build automatics. I doubt the first manual trannies were manuals because the builders wanted something more performance oriented. And you have got to be joking if you think manuals are "tougher" than automatics, because usually it's automatics that can handle higher power outputs.

Consistency is what wins races. That is why SERIOUS drag racers use well-built automatics. And automatics also provide torque multiplication. More useful in trucks, but I can imagine it helps on the track, too. Every time I read about guys building up drag cars, they eventually switch over to an automatic when they get serious enough.

Ferrari does offer automatics. I'm not saying that manuals do not offer a more sporty driving experience. They do. That is why "sports cars" usually come with them.

For corner carving and road racing, I would want a manual. Automatics suck for that. For the drag strip, trucking/towing and daily driving, I would want an automatic.

I have nothing against manuals. I do have something against people who think that a manual tranny is God's gift to the automotive industry. They are nice for certain applications, but they are not the best choice across the board.

dnbguy86

^^^ werd. he clarified some of what i was thinking. i meant for drag racing purposes i believe auto is best as its more consistent than manual. im not talkin auto-xing or anything else. stock for stock an auto would most likely lose, but if modded i believe the auto would win...and yes i understand torque converters arent the most efficient because they slip, but if you ever been in a car with one youd understand what i mean. once you hit the throttle, it almost instantaneously stalls to what kinda stall speed you installed as where a manual just climbs through the revs.

betterthanbad

For all around fun and enjoyment and really being in the driver seat manual is it period. You can sit on a rocket and break the sound barrier but if you can read a newspaper while your going in a straight line then that is just pointless to me. Why even put a driver in the seat. Just get a remote control and push a button.............and see!!!, my car is faster than yours!! Big deal, no effort there just put alot of money into it!!!

thehemi

You seem to be more worried about "doing something" other than trying
to win the race. If you want to consistently win, you will use the auto.

Like I said, the best tranny is based on your application. If you want to
consistently win drag races, you get a well-built automatic. If you have
a desire to have a "more interactive driving experience", get the manual.

PS- A lot of money? $125 TransGo Shift Kit and your automatic LS1 will
hang (or likely beat) about any 6-speed LS1. Hell, throw another $2-300
for an aftermarket torque converter and toast any/all 6-speed cars. That
is not a lot of money and you will **** off a bunch of manual guys.

zinner

I was molested by an automatic transmission when I was a child so I can never have an auto in any car I own. God the pain!

xrecar

There is one thing that has not really been brought up in this entire debate......overall durability. If you take an auto and manual tranny (both stock), You can almost be assured (Obviously there are SOME exceptions) that somewhere soon after 100k miles, you will have to rebuild an auto. With a manual, sure you may have to replace the clutch, but lets compare the price of a clutch job to the price to rebuild an auto tranny....no comparison. The manual wins in this situation most all of the time. I will however agree that for consistancy, you cant beat an auto.

Chevy4Life85

Very true AUTO's will start to slip and fall apart after about 100k

dnbguy86

Its not so much that the tranny just falls apart. if how u take care of it and such. if your always on the throttle and not changin the fluid etc. yea, i think itll be toast by 100k

thehemi

What kind of junk trannies are you guys talking about? We usually sell off our vehicles by the time they reach 130K miles or so, and the autos are always still working great. My dad's old Grand Am went 120K before the timing gears gave out (tranny was still okay). We sold a Corsica at 130K and it still shifted like new (teenager "neutral drops" and all during its lifespan). My Grand Am has 114K and still shifts real firm. My dad sold an Astro van to a friend. Last I heard, it had 220K on the factory auto.

The whole notion that an automatic only lasts 100K is an urban legend. The only people that I usually see with autos that do not last long are guys running well above stock power levels. Usually people can blow up their manuals with excessive power, too (eg- Mustang T-5s). Actually, my buddy blew up the manual in his Saturn with a bone stock engine, because he was "performance" driving in a car without a "performance" built manual.

You will notice the SS comes with a different manual than the normal Cobalts. Know why? Because the power output of the SS would probably toast their normal, economy manual. Manuals are not all performance designed. They're usually economically designed, so they are not going to be very durable under high power or performance driving. Unless, of course, you get a car with a HD manual tranny from the factory.

Urban legends...

p7x

Honestly man I think that auto is for people that can't drive. Not to mention i have never heard of a car with auto being faster than the same car with manual. Manual is also cheaper. Driving these days with auto is so boring takes the fun out of driving not to mention u dont feel the car perform and get a feel for your car with an auto but It is convenient!

thehemi

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard anyone say.

You do not get out much, huh? Autos with shift kits own manuals.
(Well, in drag racing. In road racing you would want the manual.)

You apparently have never driven a high power car with built auto.
Grabbing rubber in 3rd in an automatic is a -seriously cool- feeling.

ronstoppable

My brother in-law has an 04 stratus RT w/ auto stick. That damn car has a quick ass shift time, I wish they made auto sticks for the ss!!

mafsu

I just picked up my Black LS coupe on Friday. I got the LS because I wanted the auto. They had an SS/SC on the lot I could have gotten, but I really wanted the auto. The auto will definitely hold up if you take care of them. I have a 97 Sierra with 250,000, a 2001 Tahoe with 200,000, and just sold a 97 Grand Am with 205,000 never had a seconds trouble with the transmissions on any of them.

betterthanbad

I guess, from reading my posts, you've noticed that I don't intend to have a fast car I would only race in a straight line. There are two camps here and each have their own interesting and exciting things about them. I'm in the manual camp with a."more interactive driving experience". It's not about winning the race if you want to arrive alive and really be in control your car.

dnbguy86

Im with thehemi, my co worker has 900 hp camaro with an auto and he completely looses the rear end on the 1st to 2nd upshift, and the 2nd to 3rd just slighty gets squirrelly. so its all about the power. autos are extremely useful in high horsepower applications where youd just loose traction with a high horsepower vehicle with a manual trans. Thehemi makes many good points about autos....yall should listen to him.

wesmanw02

Totally not true. Historically, manual transmissions were used on vehicles because they were simple, reliable, and got the job done. It wasn't about performance (as you said), and the only reason that the automatic transmission was ever designed was for conveinance. Lazy Americans didn't feel like shifting, hence the origination of the slushbox.

As for durability, automatics are a joke. Do you have any idea how many automatics have been recalled over the years becuase the couldn't handle the stock output of the vehicle in which they were installed? Autos are weaker by design, anything that allows internal slippage and creates friction/heat is not a good design durability wise. A manual trans with a strong set of cogs is all but unbreakable - and if you did somehow manage to break something, it involves replacing a few parts - not rebuilding the whole transmission as in an auto, whcih usually give out slowly and begin to slip under stress.


The only reason professional drag racers use built up autos is for consistancy and automated shifts. Obviously one can't miss a shift in an auto, and pro drag cars have so much power that it is humanly impossible to shift a manual fast enough. But those are the only 2 advantages.

I'll say it once more in case you didn't read it the first time: There is really no such thing as "torque multiplication". It is a myth, torque converters don't actually "multiply torque". All they do is allow the engine to spin faster than the transmission output shaft, therefore allowing the engine to produce its peak torque at a low speed or a stop. The same thing can be accomplished by slipping the clutch from a stop on a manual, its no revelation.

Well I'm going to have to disagree with you there too. You're right that manuals do offer a much sportier driving experience, but the only disadvantage is city driving. Manuals are better for sports cars, circuit racing, autocross, drag racing (non-pro) - and, in my opinion, daily driving as well. Manuals are also better in trucks and for towing - take a look in any Medium Duty Rig, and chances are it wil be manual. I would know, i'm around them all day at work. Also notice that Chevy, Ford, and Dodge all offer 6-speed manuals in their heavy duty 1-ton dually trucks - which are primarily used for towing

The bottom line is that manuals are - in reality - better than autos in everything except "consistancy" and "pro drag racing" - which applies no zero people on here anyway

thehemi

Manual transmissions were used because they did not know how to
build an automatic when they started. I think it was not until late in
the 1930s or early 1940s that automatics were developed enough to
put into production.

I would not keep buying GMs with automatics if any of them were as
bad as you claim. I have never had a problem with a GM automatic.
Every vehicle we have owned has easily gone 130K without problems.
There might have been a bad design or two on occasion, but that has
been an issue with all facets of production, not just transmissions.

Yeah, with a strong set of cogs. Of course a HD manual is real strong.
I promise that a HD automatic is bulletproof, too. And who said you've
got to rebuild an entire automatic if one gear fails? That's not true, it's
just that's it's more convenient to rebuild everything while it's out. Why
would I tear open a manual and rebuild one gear? I'd do them all, too.

Damn consistency in racing!

You do not need to be a pro drag racer to take advantage of consistency.
I'm not saying the automatic is the best transmission either, I'm saying it
depends on the purpose and a bunch on personal preference. I would not
want to commute, drag race or tow without an automatic. IMHO.

c0baltss2005sunburst

I actually prefer driving cars with a manual tranny. I find them much more fun to drive and I feel more in control. If anything, my second bet would be going with an AutoStick tranny. I know they don't make them for the SS, but I have an 04 Spyder Eclipse GT with an AutoStick and I would assume you can get more power before each shift because you have that control over it. They're fun too when you want the power, but definately don't compare with a stick in my book...

mafsu

Isn't it really just a matter of preference at this point? The automatic transmission has advanced to the point that it is as reliable as a manual. It's a shame Chevy hasn't seen fit to offer the SS/SC in an auto yet. I'm sure they won't until they can produce enough cars in the current configuration to meet demand.

thehemi

Yeah, I'm sure the majority of this market wants the manual.
It will be pretty nice when an SS sedan w/ the opt auto is out.

I prefer it when any car has transmission choices. But I guess
it's sometimes not economical for them to build both variations
if one choice is going to clearly be the choice for most buyers.

I also prefer when you get engine options, so you can stick the
biggest engine in the most simplest optioned chassis. But those
days are over, too. It's almost always the case nowadays that
you have to pay for a bunch of other options to get a big engine.

Nightcrawler

Most Auto Stick's that I've seen or nothing more than a disguise for any other automatic transmission control. Whether you move from 1st to 2nd to Drive via the arm that sticks out of the steering wheel, or a clever +/- lever on the console, it's the same. In fact, several auto sticks will shift when the RPMs hit a certain point even if you don't tell it to!

I highly doubt you get more power from your shift.. The shift point should be right around the max RPM the car will allow under full acceleration with a normal auto. I could be wrong, but I don't believe you will gain much of anything except better control for a quick DOWNSHIFT if it doesn't override you anyway. Normal autos are still retarded and slow to respond when it comes to being in a higher gear and then giving it some gas. It doesn't always downshift when I personally would if it were manual and sometimes it does and I would have left it in 5th. The automatic transmission fails to have 'common sense' to know how and when you need or do not need your acceleration.

In conclusion, are auto sticks any better than your standard handle coming out of the steering wheel? You have quicker access to chaning gears and better manuerablility to get to it, but that's about all in my opinion.