joeworkstoohard

okay gents,

here's the deal, i just recently got around to installing a new amp and now i'm getting minor amounts of headlamp dimming when the low notes play.

to be clear, we're not talking about a huge issue here. basically, the AC has to be on, and when it's up loud, they dim. it doesn't happen with the radio at a normal volume, or if the AC is off, etc.

my mindset has always been "caps are useless, upgrade the electrical system" however, it's FAR less expensive than a rewound alternator.

so, give me some real world reasons for or against them.

for reference, this is the model that i'm looking at.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1172880157454

creedin

what caps do is grab a constant charge form the battery, say before the cap your battery was about 14 volts, with about 14 volts power to everything, then after the cap, the cap requires a constant 1 volt going solely to it, so it will leave your battery with 13 volts excess to use, so it makes it seem like the dim isnt that bad because of the less current going to headlights


now i agree with you there, with that it is cheaper and smarter, although you can easily pick up a 20 farad cap for about 175 on ebay. covers future installation, and aslong as you dont drive at night, or hit heavy bass at night there will be no problem

joeworkstoohard

well, i work for best buy corp, so i can grab that RF model for cheap, so it's really a big savings compared to the 300-400 bucks for a decent re-wind

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

get that cap and be happy. RF caps are actually good unlike the 20f ones u find for 175 on ebay.... assuming i didnt go all crazy with my electrical nonsense i would easily have that sweet 2f or 10f cap now

creedin

its a tsunami cap so ya its pretty decent

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

not really. decent is the most i would say.

spitfire2332

I would start with the big 3 upgrade if you havent already. I know I saw alternators in the tsunami catalog, I would see if you could get an accommodation with them and order an alt. caps ftl

cobaltguy88

get a Kinetik Power Cell.. works like a charm... my bass hits HARD, and no lights dim. Nuff said.

madlion

biggest draw back of a cap is the weight

joeworkstoohard

a few pounds isn't my concern. i've just always heard the "they are crap argument"

i guess i could always just try it and see.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

ive read this post about 5 times tonight and sadly its on the list of one of the most retarted things ive ever herd.

joeworkstoohard

i took it as "there is nothing wrong with the performance, the only way it could been seen as bad is that it adds some weight"

Cougarguy

i can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet. a cap is a band-aid to a real problem. while your amp is sucking power so is your cap. a cap has enough power for a few seconds at best, more like 1 second. so while your power demand is going on, you are also trying to keep a cap charged. a complete waste. upgrade your big 3 or get a kinetik.

joeworkstoohard

yeah, i hear you, but the ecotec alternators are pretty big bucks, big enough to say "**** it, i'll just turn the music down"

and as far as batteries go, the compartment in cobalts is kind of an odd shape, so you're limited in the batter choices.

Cougarguy

kinetiks come in like 6 sizes and storage capacities, besides just make your-own mounting set-up.

madlion

caps are voltage stabilizers. they arent bandaids they get a bad rap because people run 3000 watts with 2 caps and still get dimming. its because the alternator isnt putting out enough amps. you could run two batteries. that would be called a bandaid. 500 watts 1 farad cap and a deep cell battery is a healthy system on the stock alternator. it wouldnt hurt to do the big 3 upgrade if you are going to 1000 watt. also some amps are more power hungry then others. like my 1000 watt xtant x1001. underated amps do not follow these loose guidelines stated above. also it is usually better to run multiple small caps then one big cap.

Halfcent

Um, what? That makes no sense electrically speaking at all.

Amps my boy, not volts.

Cougarguy

[QUOTE=madlion;2649030]caps are voltage stabilizers. they arent bandaids they get a bad rap because people run 3000 watts with 2 caps and still get dimming. its because the alternator isnt putting out enough amps. you could run two batteries. that would be called a bandaid. 500 watts 1 farad cap and a deep cell battery is a healthy system on the stock alternator. it wouldnt hurt to do the big 3 upgrade if you are going to 1000 watt. also some amps are more power hungry then others. like my 1200 watt arc audio 1200.1 underated amps do not follow these loose guidelines stated above.


If your system is drawing more amperage than your alternator and battery can discharge, your voltage is going to drop!

A = W/V

Anything to add to that??

Buy a battery - Caps are junk! A capacitor can only provide power for a split second and it is completely discharged...

Say your system is drawing 150A... You're alternator is only able to produce 130A, so your system is going to start drawing from the battery looking for the power it needs. Each battery has a reserve rating, lets say yours for example is 30 min @ 35A...

Your system is drawing 150A, and your car is also using power to run, lets say 50A for example - you have a total load of 200A, but you are only producing 130A. That means 70A is being drawn from your battery. So, using the reserve time I used for this example you take 30*35 = 1050 and your car's load is an additional 70A so you take 1050/70 = 15 minutes. This means that after 15 minutes of using your system, your battery is depleted and you are only running on your alternator! Since you are drawing 200 peak amps, your lights will dim when the system hits because it is trying to draw an extra 70A that is not available to it! By adding another battery, or 2 or 3 or 10, you are adding more reserve time to your car's draw before it needs to recharge the batteries.

Adding another battery is very easy, using the wire run back to the trunk, just run your positive to the positive terminal, and your ground wire to the ground terminal. Then run wires from the rear battery to the amp(s). That's it! Just make sure you have a battery box an that it's tied down! If you don't it may spill leaking acid everywhere, and batteries also produce Hydrogen which is very explosive! So, USE A BATTERY BOX! If you would wire it in parallel as described you are maintaining the same voltage but adding more reserve. However, if you wire it in series, positive to negative, you are keeping the same reserve time but doubling the voltage to 24V - NOT GOOD! Your amps won't be too happy with that much voltage and you will ruin them!

Some of the most powerful competition amps in the world are only modified to handle 15-18V MAX! And these are not your everyday amps! Don't mess with voltage, just add reserve time...

jdog3104

^ wont work because now your altenator is going be trying to charge two batteries that now require twice as many amps and still run the car, besides you shouldnt recharge two batteries at once anyways without proper voltage regulators. im with madlion depending on the size of your system a good cap or bite the bullet and get a high output altenator

Halfcent

Okay, that, once again, is incorrect. It makes no sense electrically. You are right that the alternator will be charging two batteries at the same time, but there is no problem with that at all. How many amps do you think charging a battery takes? After the engine start discharge is recovered, most batteries completely reject any additional power sent to it. And, uh, proper voltage regulators? Do you know where the voltage regulator is in a car? It's an intergral part of the alternator itself. Car's have used solid state, alternator integrated voltage regulation ever since cars stopped using generators.

Guys, high end music systems will draw "peaks" of power. Meaning that for the periods of time that the system requires a lot of amps, it will take it. When it doesn't (like in between each drum thump), the systems maximum rated amperage is still available, its just not being used. So if during the peaks the system has to draw additional amperage off a battery, that same battery then gets the charge back off the peaks.

This is why an audio capacitor is used. Is it able to accept and release its charge much faster. It does the perfect job of accepting a charge when the system it not peaked, and giving it up when it is.

I don't know what article you guys read that tells you some of the things you are getting, but by your logic, there wouldn't be any capacitors in the world anywhere, just batteries.

joeworkstoohard

cent, electrical theory isn't where i'm losing out here, the question that no one seems to answer is, will it hurt anything?

from what i'm seeing, no it won't, but it's not a "fix all". that's fine, i just want to not drain the battery excessively when i'm rocking out with the AC, lights, fog lamps, defroster and waffle maker on.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

i answered you in post #4

raptors_67

LOL , well I won't make too much of a comment on some of the misinformed posts made thus far in this thread, I guess some of you should pull those damn caps out of your amplifiers circuitry since they are "band-aid" solutions.... LOL.

However, the electrical issues when adding aftermarket stereo equipment comes down to a couple things that I've dealth with on more than one of these vehicles. Firstly, I found the ground to frame from the battery unacceptable. Start here. If you want to get more ambitious an 8 gauge or even 4 gauge run to the alternator is a good idea. It takes more work than the ground replacement but will help your situation. It's a pretty long run for the link between the battery and alt in the stock setup so keep that in mind.

I also found that the factory batteries are incredibly weak in these cars. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the few that I have worked on or not but I've found that the voltage drop from the stock battery is horrible. With my own car this is the first thing I replaced when my battery was dying after about 10 minutes of playing the system without the engine running (this was 2 months or so after purchasing the car brand new). After it was replaced I've had no issues of dimming as I did before. I've went ahead and replaced the ground to the frame connection as well since and will be doing the alternator connection upgrade to 8 gauge or maybe 4 as I believe this is what caused my factory battery to become so weak but I have no proof of that, it's just a feeling I have.

JPizzle

I say, get a Optima Red Top, Optima Yellow Top, 2 alternators, and that cap & tell me how it is.

EmperorJJ1

iTrader: (5)

^^^ done.... cept with better batts... any more requests?