Smoking Issue (lsj turbo)
08-08-2011, 11:42 PM
#26
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The only thing you are trying to do is get of crank case pressure build up. So plug the PCV hole on the intake flange, run a breather, and route line from the back of the valve cover to the turbo intake (I run a catch can inline). No need to do anymore, unless you want to make 1000+hp...
08-09-2011, 06:42 PM
#27
Pretty sure Ryan doesn't run a breather filter, he runs an AN line down to a catch can. I've seen Ryan's car in-person and talked to him about what he has done to it. And I'm not saying that won't work... I'm just saying its not the best. They're also running a race prepped engine... not a stock engine.
The proper way to do it, is the way I outlined. You aren't just trying to get rid of the pressure build up... you want there to be a vacuum in the bottom end... for various reasons. That'll give you the most power, as well. GM outlined this in the build book. The stock LSJ PCV system is not very good, and that tiny port on the back of the valve cover is useless. It narrows as it enters the valve cover... its not even as big as the hole on the outside.
The proper way to do it, is the way I outlined. You aren't just trying to get rid of the pressure build up... you want there to be a vacuum in the bottom end... for various reasons. That'll give you the most power, as well. GM outlined this in the build book. The stock LSJ PCV system is not very good, and that tiny port on the back of the valve cover is useless. It narrows as it enters the valve cover... its not even as big as the hole on the outside.
08-09-2011, 08:06 PM
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Pretty sure Ryan doesn't run a breather filter, he runs an AN line down to a catch can. I've seen Ryan's car in-person and talked to him about what he has done to it. And I'm not saying that won't work... I'm just saying its not the best. They're also running a race prepped engine... not a stock engine.
The proper way to do it, is the way I outlined. You aren't just trying to get rid of the pressure build up... you want there to be a vacuum in the bottom end... for various reasons. That'll give you the most power, as well. GM outlined this in the build book. The stock LSJ PCV system is not very good, and that tiny port on the back of the valve cover is useless. It narrows as it enters the valve cover... its not even as big as the hole on the outside.
The proper way to do it, is the way I outlined. You aren't just trying to get rid of the pressure build up... you want there to be a vacuum in the bottom end... for various reasons. That'll give you the most power, as well. GM outlined this in the build book. The stock LSJ PCV system is not very good, and that tiny port on the back of the valve cover is useless. It narrows as it enters the valve cover... its not even as big as the hole on the outside.
Also to properly take car of gases when the turbo isn't spooled you should have a line with a check valve going to the intake manifold to ensure that the lines going to the valve cover are pulling enough vacuum to pull all the gases.
In the end it is all about getting rid of crank case pressure...
08-09-2011, 10:51 PM
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okay, rob, i have a couple of questions b/c I believe I just got lost a little bit. Concerning the lsj's pcv system, there's another place besides that tiny pecker on the valve cover where it vents crankcase pressure? If so, then where? Perhaps a pic would help my simple mind...
I don't mind reworking the pcv system if it'll fix the smoking issue I'm having. However, I'm just not 100% sure the problem is stemming from crankcase pressure, or merely too much oil pressure in the feed line. Does that even make a difference in diagnosing this problem, because to me, that sounds like the difference between needing a restrictor on the oil line and re-working the entire pcv system. Perhaps, can anybody shed light on how much oil pressure this turbo needs to run efficiently?
I don't mind reworking the pcv system if it'll fix the smoking issue I'm having. However, I'm just not 100% sure the problem is stemming from crankcase pressure, or merely too much oil pressure in the feed line. Does that even make a difference in diagnosing this problem, because to me, that sounds like the difference between needing a restrictor on the oil line and re-working the entire pcv system. Perhaps, can anybody shed light on how much oil pressure this turbo needs to run efficiently?
08-11-2011, 04:25 AM
#34
I talked with Ryan, Matt, and Tim all weekend at CED this year. They don't run a catch can anymore because they didn't see any difference in running just the breather cap and running catch can set up.
Also to properly take car of gases when the turbo isn't spooled you should have a line with a check valve going to the intake manifold to ensure that the lines going to the valve cover are pulling enough vacuum to pull all the gases.
In the end it is all about getting rid of crank case pressure...
Also to properly take car of gases when the turbo isn't spooled you should have a line with a check valve going to the intake manifold to ensure that the lines going to the valve cover are pulling enough vacuum to pull all the gases.
In the end it is all about getting rid of crank case pressure...
And when the turbo isn't fully spooled... its still spinning and creating vacuum. OEM connects to the Intake Piping for a reason: its effective. Running the line to the intake tube versus the intake manifold shouldn't make much of a difference... one will just cost you more because you need a check valve.
Getting rid of crankcase pressure is just the start. Having the crankcase in a state of vacuum while running WOT is where you will see the most gain. That's why I recommend what I recommend.
There's another one on the Intake Manifold Flange. Smaller than most pinkies are wide. Blocked off by most Sheetmetal I/M's.
AN fitting on the Valve Cover... run it to a sealed catch can (not one with a breather on it, that defeats the purpose)... and then connect that to either your intake, or a vacuum pump that's activated via Hobbs Switch. Vacuum pump way is effective, but still requires you to figure something out for when you're idling (this is wear the front fitting with a check valve, connected to the I/M comes in). Some people just connect the other end of the vacuum pump up to the intake though. Saw that on an LSx Set-up.
Last edited by USMCFieldMP; 08-11-2011 at 05:05 AM.
08-11-2011, 08:19 AM
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so you sincerely believe this is being caused by crankcase pressure and not too much pressure flowing through the feed line? At least that's what it sounds like since you're recommending working on the pcv system.
08-11-2011, 08:49 PM
#36
Its hard to say for sure with an internet diagnostic... but I really don't think its from too much oil pressure going into the turbo.
A good PCV system is required anyway. I ran the Filter on the back of the VC before... Ryan even put a Filter on my Oil Filler for me when it was up there. It worked great at eliminating the smoking issue that I had, for the most part. But it also covered the back of the engine block and my valve cover in oil. You're no longer pressurizing the block... you're now blowing all that air out of those filters. They eventually get soaked in Oil... and that's when things start getting covered in oil.
Blazin did his system, just as I have PLANNED on doing mine from the beginning, I just never got around to it (disadvantage of being lazy
). When the car hits the streets again this fall, you can bet your ass my PCV system will be set-up the same as his. Like I said before, its recommended that way in GM's Ecotec Build Book, as well... so its not like we're making this crap up.
A good PCV system is required anyway. I ran the Filter on the back of the VC before... Ryan even put a Filter on my Oil Filler for me when it was up there. It worked great at eliminating the smoking issue that I had, for the most part. But it also covered the back of the engine block and my valve cover in oil. You're no longer pressurizing the block... you're now blowing all that air out of those filters. They eventually get soaked in Oil... and that's when things start getting covered in oil.
Blazin did his system, just as I have PLANNED on doing mine from the beginning, I just never got around to it (disadvantage of being lazy
). When the car hits the streets again this fall, you can bet your ass my PCV system will be set-up the same as his. Like I said before, its recommended that way in GM's Ecotec Build Book, as well... so its not like we're making this crap up.
08-14-2011, 10:20 AM
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okay, rob, this is what you're proposing to do, right? I noticed he actually routed the pcv line possibly to one of his charge pipes (I'm assuming). But what about the bigger line that's routed into his oil cap?
08-14-2011, 07:50 PM
#40
He didn't route them to a charge pipe... and don't do that. That would essentially boost/pressurize your block.
He ran both lines to a catch can that's mounted in front of the trans. I do not believe he routed his back to connect to the intake pipe. The line coming out of the Oil Cap does the same thing as the other one... just gives more room, for more pressure to escape.
If you can find pics of Area47's Cobalt, he did it, as well. Ran a -12AN line from his VC to a catch can, and then to his intake pipe.
That would essentially boost/pressurize your block.He ran both lines to a catch can that's mounted in front of the trans. I do not believe he routed his back to connect to the intake pipe. The line coming out of the Oil Cap does the same thing as the other one... just gives more room, for more pressure to escape.
If you can find pics of Area47's Cobalt, he did it, as well. Ran a -12AN line from his VC to a catch can, and then to his intake pipe.
08-14-2011, 11:40 PM
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sry, I'll look a little harder next time. Can't believe I didn't see those other pics in the same thread, :facepalm:
I tried looking in his garage for some albums, but the only engine shot I think is old, because I don't see anything special about the pcv system. I see what you mean about josh's system though. Basically what makes the factory pcv system is the size of the breather on the valve. Bigger hoses and a bigger outlet means more crankcase pressure being allowed to exit. Right? Catchcan is there to catch any blow-by.
So I can keep the way my system is set up, just need bigger lines and a bigger catch can?
I tried looking in his garage for some albums, but the only engine shot I think is old, because I don't see anything special about the pcv system. I see what you mean about josh's system though. Basically what makes the factory pcv system is the size of the breather on the valve. Bigger hoses and a bigger outlet means more crankcase pressure being allowed to exit. Right? Catchcan is there to catch any blow-by.
So I can keep the way my system is set up, just need bigger lines and a bigger catch can?
08-14-2011, 11:43 PM
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One more thing...right now I just blocked off that pcv hole that goes into the head (the one that's normally blocked by sheet metal intakes). Should that be used for anything, or should I just continue to block that thing off?
08-15-2011, 03:34 AM
#44
sry, I'll look a little harder next time. Can't believe I didn't see those other pics in the same thread, :facepalm:
I tried looking in his garage for some albums, but the only engine shot I think is old, because I don't see anything special about the pcv system. I see what you mean about josh's system though. Basically what makes the factory pcv system is the size of the breather on the valve. Bigger hoses and a bigger outlet means more crankcase pressure being allowed to exit. Right? Catchcan is there to catch any blow-by.
So I can keep the way my system is set up, just need bigger lines and a bigger catch can?
I tried looking in his garage for some albums, but the only engine shot I think is old, because I don't see anything special about the pcv system. I see what you mean about josh's system though. Basically what makes the factory pcv system is the size of the breather on the valve. Bigger hoses and a bigger outlet means more crankcase pressure being allowed to exit. Right? Catchcan is there to catch any blow-by.
So I can keep the way my system is set up, just need bigger lines and a bigger catch can?
The important thing to remember, is not to hook any of the lines up to any piping that sees boost. You want them connected to the turbo's intake pipe... so its in an almost constant state of vacuum.
You can keep it blocked off... or you can thread it, put a fitting in, and run it the same way as all the others. I threaded and plugged mine.
08-19-2011, 09:02 PM
#45
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update:
tried to drive the car to the mechanic's today to look at it and talk about the pcv system (along with some guage installs). Stupid me didn't check the oil level first, and when i got a couple miles outside my house, I heard some knock. Don't know if it's the engine or the turbo taking a ****. But I had to put about 2-3 quarts of oil in. I'll keep you guys posted.
tried to drive the car to the mechanic's today to look at it and talk about the pcv system (along with some guage installs). Stupid me didn't check the oil level first, and when i got a couple miles outside my house, I heard some knock. Don't know if it's the engine or the turbo taking a ****. But I had to put about 2-3 quarts of oil in. I'll keep you guys posted.
08-20-2011, 06:55 PM
#47
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i'm not exactly sure what or where the knock was coming from. All I know is that I heard something, I checked the oil level and it was low. I filled it up and drove home, and then checked the level again. The level was fine, so I don't know what it could be at this point. I'm having it towed to my mechanic soon, and we'll start diagnosing from there. We plan on checking the turbo first just to make sure.