In short...

You bought a kit

A shop made the piping

Isn't that basically what I was saying?

 

Yes but once a shop makes a kit like that all the specs are in the computer there they have a custom kit to offer anyone with that same car.

So you can buy a kit if the shop has done the setup on a cobalt before. Although I doubt many shops have.

 

ok and?

They will still charge them more than the 3k you're already dishing out

 

Its about $3100-3300 installed.

 

The sts kit comes with piping that you customize to fit your application "UNIVERSAL"! Your pricing is also wrong considering I am a dealer for "STS" and I am selling the kits for $2000! If its too hard for you to layout some piping and tighten a few bolts dont buy it or have someone else do it for you. I also will be doing HP Tuning next week which is $350. $3000 and you have a complete installed kit and tuned if you like coming to St. Louis.

 

hmm

Well someone is lying...

 

not only do the STS kits NOT come with piping.....but good ****** luck tuning this dam thing.

i had one of the highest WHP/WTQ cobalts around and that was an easy 4 month tune in comparison to how my turbo tune i coming....

a solid tune that will make a SC car into a happy turbo car is gonna take allot of time...and on a dyno if your getting it tuned time=lots-o-money.

 

where are you getting the other post?

 

http://www.ststurbo.com/uni

 

I just found that post from sts, but I just gave you my pricing on it 3K installed and tuned.

 

alright...

 

hey NJHK what would you say if someone did this kit and was able to push as much as or a little more than the garret etup? from what i've known someone was able to push 267whp with a custom SCT tune on a 2.2L thats with an intercooler. if someone did the setup thier self, w/o adding an intercooler and some got tuning for it and put down more than the 267whp would you admit the sts or rear mount setup is slightly more efficient....

lol. im not choosing side im just curious.

the reason is that i've been on the GTO forum (and yes i know its a V8 but im just giving an example...) and they've said that they get more power than a traditional mounted turbo or supercharger...

also on STS website they have an integra, i believe, with the rear mount (with a video)a nd its not that bad, power wise in the sense of a 4 banger....

http://www.ststurbo.com/sema_videos

by the way i hate v-tecs just to clarify that....lol

http://www.ststurbo.com/sts_technology

 

Good luck running 267whp on a 2.2 with stock internals. You really dont want to run anything higher then about 220whp on it stock. Thats pushing the pistons...

 

I don't think you've read most of what I've posted.

Most of my issues is not just that it's inefficient as far as compressing air. The operation is just like any other operation but extending the travel of air will cause a pressure loss.

My main issue is that there is too much that could go wrong on cars that people use as daily drivers.

You can create 300 HP for all I care, sure...intercooling is just one way of having lower combustion chamber temperatures but to do it try and prove some point doesn't make sense.

Providing horsepower numbers proves nothing of reliability.

 

dont forget your not only raising your system PR but your also lowering you exhaust gas temps, and if you know how a turbo works, it lives and dies of HOT expanding gas's....6ft of charge pipe under a car while at speed will have a DRASTIC cooling effect to them.

 

Good point.

 

Actually thats not true. You can blow cold air into teh exhaust side of a turbo and as long as its the same ammounr of air it will spin the turbine just as fast as hot air. Technically the reason hot air works is because since it is expanded technically there is less air taking up teh same ammount of space. Where the iffy part comes in is that how well it works all depends on how much air your actually pushing through the exhaust. Say you car pushes alot of air through your engine then the setup wont see any loss. But say you drive a B series Honda which doesn't move much air at all, the way to make this system work would be to scale down the actual exhaust piping. Part of the reason a STS kit is going to go with a typically smaller turbo. But because our ecotecs are very high flowing engines compared to most 4cyl's a STS kit with 2.5 exhaust piping will spool up just as easily as a traditional setup but will have maybe 1 tenth of a second more lag in the system. Of course if you are like the typical idiot on these boards and only highway race the turbo lag isn't a problem.

 

the amount of COLD air required to get the volume in the turbine housing IS exponentially higher then the amount of hot air you need to fill that same volume...its a fact of physics my friend.

and if you wish to ignore this fact then your next point still hold no merit.

regardless of how much air an engine can pass through it the moment you have ANY length of pipe off the motor you get a PR drop...once again a given face.

i understand your points but the issue with them is that your trying to ignore the rule and laws of gas in a controlled pipe system.....especially a system thats at least 6+ feet long.

and another flaw in thinking is that if you have a motor that doesn't move much air you dont just scale piping down you scale the turbine side to compensate for this.

there is no given number of pipe size for any motor....and with a turbo being your restriction you could run 8in exhaust to the turbine flange and you will have the same effect as 2 or 3in....velocity may rise, volume will fall, back pressure would scale up and this handicap the motor.

the only way to pull that exhaust size piping off effectively is to pick your possible horse power level or the level you want to be at and scale pipe from that number (will not a number but the needed air flow to support that number) amd that will give you the smallest pipe that can support your wanted HP level.

 

who cares about the whole "cold air vs hot air spooling the turbo"

the one thing that's gonna effect lag time is the amount of time needed to fill the i/c pipes with compressed air.

Rear mount turbos are pretty solid, imo it should be used for track cars cause some streets are harsh and you could do a lot of damage to the turbos and all.

 

Exactly.

Because 99% of the people on this forum drive their cars on the street and probably every day as well.

 

No! Im calling Shinanigans! jk, i agree.


Sincerely,

The Rock...

 

you may be loosing exhaust speed but look at this. The exhaust gases are cooler at the back of the car, i can lay my hand on my muffler all day and it dont burn, its warm but it dont burn. up in the engine compartment i cant even barely touch the exhaust. High heat is loss of power. Back in the rear of the car w/ the gases cooler that makes the air more dense. Denser air rotates the turbo faster. On 7lbs of boost on a vet they took a base vet from 350 some hp to over 520hp. thats more then a brand new z06. Also there is a video of an instialtion on youtube and streetfire they explain the different between the normal turbo set up and a remote mount set up. the intercooler on a normal set up is rated at 75% efficancy for cooling the air. the same intercooler on an sts remote mount set up is rated at over 97% efficancy. The main reason is because the charging pipes that run back up to the engine compartment act as a secondary intercooler and the air cools as it travels back up to the engine compartment.

Going off of their calcuations for the sts system (which is the set up im going with on my car) 7lbs of boost should put me some where near 270 to 280 whp. I'll be taking the system to about 18 lbs of boost since my engine is built to handle 30lbs of boost and 500bhp. Im looking to hit a goal of 360whp not on nitrous

 

Turbochargers dont work on exhaust velocity...well ok they do a lil but not in the context in which you are using it. They work on pressure differential. High pressure on exhaust manifold side and low pressure on exhaust d/p side means a lot of high pressure wants to get to the low pressure. The higher the ratio the more wants to escape the higer the velocity the better the turbo spools.

This goes into why ur cooler air is better for exhaust gasses argument. Gas expands as its hotter and shrinks when cooler. Since turbo operate on pressure u want hotter air since hotter gasses take up more room, increaseng pressure in a closed space, increasing turbo spool. Its just basics physics and gas law theory.

 

Please dyno your car at 7lbs please. i really wanna see you make 270whp on a small ass turbo making 7lb's. You cant throw whp numbers out with psi numbers. How much CFM is that turbo going to flow at 7psi? Use that then calculate your estimated HP numbers. You CANNOT EVER take one engine and calculate your own numbers off that. You cant even do that with another 2.2.

GL Making 270whp on 7psi and a small turbo....

 

dont worry.. there are more idiots on this forum throwing out numbers than there are 'actual fabricators and installers'

they will make 7psi and 270whp all day in their head.. and you'll never prove them wrong..