Dealership Issue
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Joined: 10-26-09
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From: The Ohio University
Dealership Issue
Going to get a petition in order. If you can please sign it and help
me make a point to Bruce Ridenour, I'd be much in your debt.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/1gozoom/
Hey. This is my note to Bruce, copied from the email. I will post his response as well. I plan to go to the media, Jalopnik, Ford Forums, SRT forums, Zanesville Times Recorder, Lancaster Eagle-Gazette, Perry Tribune, and pursue the lemon law if he does not comply. So here it is.
Bruce,
As I'm sure you're well aware, I stopped in to the New Lex dealership to speak with Howard about my blown motor in the Mazda 6S. While I did purchase it as-is, I honestly believe that I received a sour deal and would like to see it recitified in some fashion. While the mechanic has not ripped the motor apart, his claim is that a bearing is spun and I believe he mentioned a rod issue as well. While I would love to just rebuild the motor, it is cheaper to just purchase a previously rebuilt motor from Action Crash. Based on what my mechanic said, the motor its self was $2399 witha $450 core charge. Once the old motor is out and returned, The $450 plus an additional $50 would be his fee, which I believe is more than reasonable for the time invested. I would love to discuss this further in person, but have had trouble catching you at the dealership. Its finals week one of two in school right now, so I've been away from technology a bit. I am free this Saturday all day, and Monday morning as well, though Saturday would work much better to meet and discuss the situation.
I'm not trying to pressure you into a situation or blackmail you, but I am an independent college student with no parents to fall back on. I also am in student loan debt, so getting additional money from the bank for it is out of the question. I am not looking for compensation for the time I've had to take off work or the classes I could possibly fail because of the time missed with this trouble, but am merely looking to get my Mazda up and running.
I took it to the service department in mid to late August because it was knocking and missing with CEL codes P0300, P0301, P0302, and P0303. They explained to me that my ignition coil was faulty, and charged me for its replacement and for looking into the issue, yet failed to mention all the spark plugs on bank 1 were destroyed, which is what I asked them to check to begin with. I have them still as proof. There is not a center or side electrode on any of the 3 plugs in back. I replaced them, but believe that the knocking was related to the metal that was the electrodes finding their way into my motor. Also with the fuel not firing in the individual cylinders, the fuel ignited in the header catalyst, melting it.
Upon finding this via the CEL P0421 (Bank 1 Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold), I followed the advice of the Mazda6 forum members and gutted the catalyst with the plan to have them replaced as soon as I was able. Upon cutting the exhaust and pulling the bank 1 header off, I realized the entire catalyst was melted and had already been sucked into the engine. There was nothing I could do besides finish removing the ceramic material. I was on my way out to the exhaust shop to see if I could get the new exhaust system when the motor went. My best guess based on Mazda forum information. The ceramic catalyst material entered the cylinders, causing damage there, which led to metal shavings in the oil, causing the fuel pump to clog, ultimately leading to the engines complete failure.
Like I said, I honestly believe your dealership should have inspected the car pre-sale and determined the spark plug issue LONG before you let it be sold to anyone. At the very least, your mechanics should have found the problem when I brought it in, yet I was instead told by your service manager (guy in office) that they checked them and they were fine, and it was instead my coil. I believe someone either didn't do their job, or the issue was noticed and covered up. Either way, I do believe I was taken advantage of. I'm sure you are aware how you intend to handle this is a determining factor in where many of my friends and family will purchase their next vehicle. I am hoping you do the right thing and own up to your dealership's mistakes. I look forward to hearing from you. My mechanic's phone number is 740-697-9070. It is Frog's Auto Repair in Roseville. He said he would try to explain the trouble if you had any more questions. If you need it towed to your dealership to inspect it, that would be fine. But know, I want him to install the motor, as I have reason to believe your service department has hurt me already, and I do not trust them. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing from you.
Josh Clontz"
his response
Hi Josh,
Sorry I have not been here when you stopped by. I will be out Friday and Saturday, but will be in Monday, if you wish to chat in person. A couple of things to keep in mind here.
* This vehicle was purchased As Is, which means exactly that. It is As Is. This was explained to you at the time of purchase and you signed a statement to that effect as well. This vehicle was never represented to you in any manner that conveyed any warranty.
* I’m not willing to engage a discussion of “he said / she said” about what another tech said or what an internet forum says about work we do. We simply do not cover up things or take advantage of our customers. There is no upside in this kind of activity for us – I don’t tolerate it and neither does my service department. If we did not diagnose a problem with your spark plugs, I am quite certain that there was not one. If we made a mistake, we stand behind our work. But if we are not getting a code for spark plugs and we do not see they are bad, we are not going to replace them.
Bottom line, Howard tells me you have been a gentleman to deal with and I am a stand up guy as well. If your vehicle requires a new engine in it, I will gladly put one in it for our absolute cost of materials and labor. That is, I will do the work for the absolute cost of the engine, core charge and labor at no profit to myself. I will not, however, agree to pay another service facility to do any work under any circumstance. I’ll need the vehicle here to determine what it might need and what that might cost, should you decide to pursue this with us.
I apologize if this seems abrupt, it’s difficult to address tone in an email. But I did want to lay out some parameters in which I am willing to discuss trying to help you out of what is a bad situation for you. I am sorry you feel taken advantage of, but I will assure you that this is simply not the case.
All the best,
Bruce
me make a point to Bruce Ridenour, I'd be much in your debt.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/1gozoom/
Hey. This is my note to Bruce, copied from the email. I will post his response as well. I plan to go to the media, Jalopnik, Ford Forums, SRT forums, Zanesville Times Recorder, Lancaster Eagle-Gazette, Perry Tribune, and pursue the lemon law if he does not comply. So here it is.
Bruce,
As I'm sure you're well aware, I stopped in to the New Lex dealership to speak with Howard about my blown motor in the Mazda 6S. While I did purchase it as-is, I honestly believe that I received a sour deal and would like to see it recitified in some fashion. While the mechanic has not ripped the motor apart, his claim is that a bearing is spun and I believe he mentioned a rod issue as well. While I would love to just rebuild the motor, it is cheaper to just purchase a previously rebuilt motor from Action Crash. Based on what my mechanic said, the motor its self was $2399 witha $450 core charge. Once the old motor is out and returned, The $450 plus an additional $50 would be his fee, which I believe is more than reasonable for the time invested. I would love to discuss this further in person, but have had trouble catching you at the dealership. Its finals week one of two in school right now, so I've been away from technology a bit. I am free this Saturday all day, and Monday morning as well, though Saturday would work much better to meet and discuss the situation.
I'm not trying to pressure you into a situation or blackmail you, but I am an independent college student with no parents to fall back on. I also am in student loan debt, so getting additional money from the bank for it is out of the question. I am not looking for compensation for the time I've had to take off work or the classes I could possibly fail because of the time missed with this trouble, but am merely looking to get my Mazda up and running.
I took it to the service department in mid to late August because it was knocking and missing with CEL codes P0300, P0301, P0302, and P0303. They explained to me that my ignition coil was faulty, and charged me for its replacement and for looking into the issue, yet failed to mention all the spark plugs on bank 1 were destroyed, which is what I asked them to check to begin with. I have them still as proof. There is not a center or side electrode on any of the 3 plugs in back. I replaced them, but believe that the knocking was related to the metal that was the electrodes finding their way into my motor. Also with the fuel not firing in the individual cylinders, the fuel ignited in the header catalyst, melting it.
Upon finding this via the CEL P0421 (Bank 1 Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold), I followed the advice of the Mazda6 forum members and gutted the catalyst with the plan to have them replaced as soon as I was able. Upon cutting the exhaust and pulling the bank 1 header off, I realized the entire catalyst was melted and had already been sucked into the engine. There was nothing I could do besides finish removing the ceramic material. I was on my way out to the exhaust shop to see if I could get the new exhaust system when the motor went. My best guess based on Mazda forum information. The ceramic catalyst material entered the cylinders, causing damage there, which led to metal shavings in the oil, causing the fuel pump to clog, ultimately leading to the engines complete failure.
Like I said, I honestly believe your dealership should have inspected the car pre-sale and determined the spark plug issue LONG before you let it be sold to anyone. At the very least, your mechanics should have found the problem when I brought it in, yet I was instead told by your service manager (guy in office) that they checked them and they were fine, and it was instead my coil. I believe someone either didn't do their job, or the issue was noticed and covered up. Either way, I do believe I was taken advantage of. I'm sure you are aware how you intend to handle this is a determining factor in where many of my friends and family will purchase their next vehicle. I am hoping you do the right thing and own up to your dealership's mistakes. I look forward to hearing from you. My mechanic's phone number is 740-697-9070. It is Frog's Auto Repair in Roseville. He said he would try to explain the trouble if you had any more questions. If you need it towed to your dealership to inspect it, that would be fine. But know, I want him to install the motor, as I have reason to believe your service department has hurt me already, and I do not trust them. Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing from you.
Josh Clontz"
his response
Hi Josh,
Sorry I have not been here when you stopped by. I will be out Friday and Saturday, but will be in Monday, if you wish to chat in person. A couple of things to keep in mind here.
* This vehicle was purchased As Is, which means exactly that. It is As Is. This was explained to you at the time of purchase and you signed a statement to that effect as well. This vehicle was never represented to you in any manner that conveyed any warranty.
* I’m not willing to engage a discussion of “he said / she said” about what another tech said or what an internet forum says about work we do. We simply do not cover up things or take advantage of our customers. There is no upside in this kind of activity for us – I don’t tolerate it and neither does my service department. If we did not diagnose a problem with your spark plugs, I am quite certain that there was not one. If we made a mistake, we stand behind our work. But if we are not getting a code for spark plugs and we do not see they are bad, we are not going to replace them.
Bottom line, Howard tells me you have been a gentleman to deal with and I am a stand up guy as well. If your vehicle requires a new engine in it, I will gladly put one in it for our absolute cost of materials and labor. That is, I will do the work for the absolute cost of the engine, core charge and labor at no profit to myself. I will not, however, agree to pay another service facility to do any work under any circumstance. I’ll need the vehicle here to determine what it might need and what that might cost, should you decide to pursue this with us.
I apologize if this seems abrupt, it’s difficult to address tone in an email. But I did want to lay out some parameters in which I am willing to discuss trying to help you out of what is a bad situation for you. I am sorry you feel taken advantage of, but I will assure you that this is simply not the case.
All the best,
Bruce
Member
Joined: 09-14-09
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Columbus, Ga
there is no "code" for spark plugs.....
Any update on this?
"The ceramic catalyst material entered the cylinders, causing damage there, which led to metal shavings in the oil, causing the fuel pump to clog, ultimately leading to the engines complete failure."
I hope you meant oil pump....but, there would have to be a TON of metal in there for the pump to clog...and most of it would settle to the bottom far enough below the pick up where it wouldnt pick it up....
Any update on this?
"The ceramic catalyst material entered the cylinders, causing damage there, which led to metal shavings in the oil, causing the fuel pump to clog, ultimately leading to the engines complete failure."
I hope you meant oil pump....but, there would have to be a TON of metal in there for the pump to clog...and most of it would settle to the bottom far enough below the pick up where it wouldnt pick it up....
Senior Member
Joined: 09-23-10
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
From: VA
That dealership is already going out of their way offering it "at cost". The only grounds you have to pursue anything on, is that they misrepresented the condition of the vehicle while it was being sold as is.
It is not a fault of the dealership, or a misdiagnosis unless you have something in writing like a service request for "check spark plugs". If that is the case, and the spark plugs failed, you have that to your advantage.
Unfortunately, the fact that the vehicle was sold as-is is very very clear cut. The dealership cant be held liable for selling a used car, brought to them in unknown condition, and sold in as best condition as the dealership is able to bring it to. This issue is not one that would be reasonably diagnosed by any dealership upon purchase of a used car, or the selling of.
It is not a fault of the dealership, or a misdiagnosis unless you have something in writing like a service request for "check spark plugs". If that is the case, and the spark plugs failed, you have that to your advantage.
Unfortunately, the fact that the vehicle was sold as-is is very very clear cut. The dealership cant be held liable for selling a used car, brought to them in unknown condition, and sold in as best condition as the dealership is able to bring it to. This issue is not one that would be reasonably diagnosed by any dealership upon purchase of a used car, or the selling of.
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