ZZP 6 Speed Transmission
11-05-2012, 05:21 PM
#76
Cost and complexity
I just bought and am using a clutch and flywheel from you guys. Why buy another clutch and another flywheel... plus a new F40... plus a custom axle... plus custom speed sensor... plus new shift cable... plus different mounts... plus an install kit... plus modifying the shifter...?
If ZZP is only doing local installs on direct-swap 5 speeds alone, to ensure that things are installed right, then I'm quite surprised that you'd have faith in people to do all of the above. Just sayin'.
I just bought and am using a clutch and flywheel from you guys. Why buy another clutch and another flywheel... plus a new F40... plus a custom axle... plus custom speed sensor... plus new shift cable... plus different mounts... plus an install kit... plus modifying the shifter...?
If ZZP is only doing local installs on direct-swap 5 speeds alone, to ensure that things are installed right, then I'm quite surprised that you'd have faith in people to do all of the above. Just sayin'.
11-05-2012, 11:55 PM
#77
Former Vendor
Cost and complexity
I just bought and am using a clutch and flywheel from you guys. Why buy another clutch and another flywheel... plus a new F40... plus a custom axle... plus custom speed sensor... plus new shift cable... plus different mounts... plus an install kit... plus modifying the shifter...?
If ZZP is only doing local installs on direct-swap 5 speeds alone, to ensure that things are installed right, then I'm quite surprised that you'd have faith in people to do all of the above. Just sayin'.
I just bought and am using a clutch and flywheel from you guys. Why buy another clutch and another flywheel... plus a new F40... plus a custom axle... plus custom speed sensor... plus new shift cable... plus different mounts... plus an install kit... plus modifying the shifter...?
If ZZP is only doing local installs on direct-swap 5 speeds alone, to ensure that things are installed right, then I'm quite surprised that you'd have faith in people to do all of the above. Just sayin'.
As far as zzp having faith in someone installing everything right, its not the same concern. Yes we want our customers' projects to pan out. However, if you purchase your own F40 trans elsewhere, we wouldn't be responsible to warranty it if it fails. Our install kit and additional parts would have a far less chance of failure. Also, we don't have a surplus of 5 speeds. We can use up all of the cores we get while only selling them along with an install. Our 6 speed kit can put the burden of sourcing a trans on the customer, for what thats worth.
11-06-2012, 12:13 AM
#78
So the F40 is a semi-automatic? I’m not familiar with the setup. Is here a clutch with a gear selector?
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. I’d love to see 2k rev’s on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. I’d love to see 2k rev’s on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
Last edited by Macgyver2484; 11-06-2012 at 12:23 AM.
11-06-2012, 01:40 AM
#80
I understand your viewpoint, but you are overstating the job and cost. The total cost is quite a bit less than people seem to think. Also, there is not much added complexity. Installing a clutch and flywheel is the same. Installing the trans is the same. Installing an axle is the same. The speed sensor install is simple and adds very little time. Installing shift cables with the trans out of the car is pretty easy. Installing mounts is the same. Modifying the shifter can be done in about 10-15 minutes. It's really not a complex job.
As far as zzp having faith in someone installing everything right, its not the same concern. Yes we want our customers' projects to pan out. However, if you purchase your own F40 trans elsewhere, we wouldn't be responsible to warranty it if it fails. Our install kit and additional parts would have a far less chance of failure. Also, we don't have a surplus of 5 speeds. We can use up all of the cores we get while only selling them along with an install. Our 6 speed kit can put the burden of sourcing a trans on the customer, for what thats worth.
As far as zzp having faith in someone installing everything right, its not the same concern. Yes we want our customers' projects to pan out. However, if you purchase your own F40 trans elsewhere, we wouldn't be responsible to warranty it if it fails. Our install kit and additional parts would have a far less chance of failure. Also, we don't have a surplus of 5 speeds. We can use up all of the cores we get while only selling them along with an install. Our 6 speed kit can put the burden of sourcing a trans on the customer, for what thats worth.
This still requires a new clutch and flywheel (~$1,100 immediately down the drain for those like me that just bought them from you and installed them, knowing they could be used on all future LNF F35s or upgraded variants). Are the mounts compatible with the steering rack for those with spacers? Is it comparable or better in price to the 5 speed options? Considering these have been installed on only a handful of cars, what reliability information do we really have?
The main reason for switching to this trans is the 3 shaft design which eliminates the flex that allows 3rd gear to strip all the teeth under high torque. Also, the gears are much larger in the F40 trans. While it is only rated to about 16% higher torque than the F35, it appears that it will take a lot more power than that. I am running one in my car and I have many dyno pulls beyond 700whp. My F35 broke just before I made it to 700whp, but it had been in my car for a couple years, so it's a tough comparison.
The gearing in this particular trans is near ideal. It has a 1st gear similar to LNF 3.82, 4th gear similar to our 4.45 trans, and then of course closer spacing in between. Then of course the best advantage of this trans is the 6th gear that drops your cruising RPMs about 500rpm compared to 5th.
This trans actually does not require a different clutch pressure plate, but the clutch disk is different to match the input shaft splines.
We are in the middle of another install in a customer's car. After that, we will work on putting together kits and we will talk about pricing. So far, it appears that it will be less expensive than most people have been guessing.
The gearing in this particular trans is near ideal. It has a 1st gear similar to LNF 3.82, 4th gear similar to our 4.45 trans, and then of course closer spacing in between. Then of course the best advantage of this trans is the 6th gear that drops your cruising RPMs about 500rpm compared to 5th.
This trans actually does not require a different clutch pressure plate, but the clutch disk is different to match the input shaft splines.
We are in the middle of another install in a customer's car. After that, we will work on putting together kits and we will talk about pricing. So far, it appears that it will be less expensive than most people have been guessing.
I'm glad that the 6 speed option is out there, but I guess the bottom line is I basically feel shafted by this (no pun intended), mostly from an investment standpoint, but not being able to get an F35 even if I'm offering to pay to have it shipped to save on that investment. I already sent y'all a spare F35 core without purchasing one, and would be sending an additional one with my swap, so y'all would still net +1 cores as far as the shortage goes.
Anyway... /blowing off steam
Perhaps we can order a clutch disk alone to convert it over?
Interested to see if pricing is comparable.
11-06-2012, 08:14 AM
#81
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: 08-22-11
Location: YAMOMS
Posts: 6,904
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So the F40 is a semi-automatic? Im not familiar with the setup. Is here a clutch with a gear selector?
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
How is this not a real 6mt?
11-06-2012, 10:05 AM
#82
what happened to scythe snake? 
i had the pleasure of meeting him in person a few weeks back at a carshow in chicago. cool dude. after meeting him i remembered who he was exactly and went back to talk to him about this transmission. (And his awesome 640hp cobalt!
) hearing how quiet it was you wouldn't guess its that fast!
he said it was holding up great so far, and he had actually just finally floored it/started using it the day before. didn't seem to have much of an opinion on it yet other than good.
i had the pleasure of meeting him in person a few weeks back at a carshow in chicago. cool dude. after meeting him i remembered who he was exactly and went back to talk to him about this transmission. (And his awesome 640hp cobalt!
) hearing how quiet it was you wouldn't guess its that fast!he said it was holding up great so far, and he had actually just finally floored it/started using it the day before. didn't seem to have much of an opinion on it yet other than good.
11-06-2012, 10:07 AM
#83
Former Vendor
If I'm overstating what's involved here then that's wonderful.
This still requires a new clutch and flywheel (~$1,100 immediately down the drain for those like me that just bought them from you and installed them, knowing they could be used on all future LNF F35s or upgraded variants). Are the mounts compatible with the steering rack for those with spacers? Is it comparable or better in price to the 5 speed options? Considering these have been installed on only a handful of cars, what reliability information do we really have?
This helps the confidence factor, but doesn't really answer the question, as we haven't had the time and number of examples to provide any kind of trend.
I'm glad that the 6 speed option is out there, but I guess the bottom line is I basically feel shafted by this (no pun intended), mostly from an investment standpoint, but not being able to get an F35 even if I'm offering to pay to have it shipped to save on that investment. I already sent y'all a spare F35 core without purchasing one, and would be sending an additional one with my swap, so y'all would still net +1 cores as far as the shortage goes.
Anyway... /blowing off steam
Perhaps we can order a clutch disk alone to convert it over?
Interested to see if pricing is comparable.
This still requires a new clutch and flywheel (~$1,100 immediately down the drain for those like me that just bought them from you and installed them, knowing they could be used on all future LNF F35s or upgraded variants). Are the mounts compatible with the steering rack for those with spacers? Is it comparable or better in price to the 5 speed options? Considering these have been installed on only a handful of cars, what reliability information do we really have?
This helps the confidence factor, but doesn't really answer the question, as we haven't had the time and number of examples to provide any kind of trend.
I'm glad that the 6 speed option is out there, but I guess the bottom line is I basically feel shafted by this (no pun intended), mostly from an investment standpoint, but not being able to get an F35 even if I'm offering to pay to have it shipped to save on that investment. I already sent y'all a spare F35 core without purchasing one, and would be sending an additional one with my swap, so y'all would still net +1 cores as far as the shortage goes.
Anyway... /blowing off steam
Perhaps we can order a clutch disk alone to convert it over?
Interested to see if pricing is comparable.
Steering rack would not be affected.
Believe me, I wish we had a bunch of 5 speeds like we did a couple years ago.
Did you tell Tim that you sent us a core? It's not like any of us would know that off the top of our heads when you are just ranting on a forum. I personally have almost zero involvement in the F35 trans builds.
So the F40 is a semi-automatic? Im not familiar with the setup. Is here a clutch with a gear selector?
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
Last edited by Matt M; 11-06-2012 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
11-06-2012, 10:08 AM
#84
Former Vendor
what happened to scythe snake?
i had the pleasure of meeting him in person a few weeks back at a carshow in chicago. cool dude. after meeting him i remembered who he was exactly and went back to talk to him about this transmission. (And his awesome 640hp cobalt!) hearing how quiet it was you wouldn't guess its that fast!
he said it was holding up great so far, and he had actually just finally floored it/started using it the day before. didn't seem to have much of an opinion on it yet other than good.
i had the pleasure of meeting him in person a few weeks back at a carshow in chicago. cool dude. after meeting him i remembered who he was exactly and went back to talk to him about this transmission. (And his awesome 640hp cobalt!
) hearing how quiet it was you wouldn't guess its that fast!he said it was holding up great so far, and he had actually just finally floored it/started using it the day before. didn't seem to have much of an opinion on it yet other than good.
11-06-2012, 11:30 AM
#85
Senior Member
So the F40 is a semi-automatic? Im not familiar with the setup. Is here a clutch with a gear selector?
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
I wonder if we can see a real 6 speed manual for our platform. Id love to see 2k revs on the highway doing 80 MPH. Talk about gas mileage without sacrificing performance.
...check out the first page...there is also a movie. The 6 speed is pretty slick
11-11-2012, 04:32 PM
#89
You don't need to swap the whole clutch, just the disk. Disk and flywheel wouldn't be anywhere close to $1100, plus you would have your pressure plate and flywheel to sell. This is why I said that you are overstating it. You quickly came up with an $1100 cost for this part when it is probably closer to $500.
Steering rack would not be affected.
Believe me, I wish we had a bunch of 5 speeds like we did a couple years ago.
Did you tell Tim that you sent us a core? It's not like any of us would know that off the top of our heads when you are just ranting on a forum. I personally have almost zero involvement in the F35 trans builds.
Steering rack would not be affected.
Believe me, I wish we had a bunch of 5 speeds like we did a couple years ago.
Did you tell Tim that you sent us a core? It's not like any of us would know that off the top of our heads when you are just ranting on a forum. I personally have almost zero involvement in the F35 trans builds.
I'll try talking again with Tim or waiting for some Black Friday thing I guess.
11-11-2012, 04:55 PM
#91
On paper it's the "F40", but I'm not sure if they've done any changes to it. What's also interesting about the F40 is that it's AWD capable, just never utilized that way to date.
11-14-2012, 09:52 AM
#94
Senior Member
Thread Starter
11-14-2012, 10:42 AM
#95
11-14-2012, 12:16 PM
#97
Former Vendor
11-17-2012, 11:33 AM
#99
Former Vendor
Yes, but you need a custom flywheel, due to the 6 bolt crank instead of 8. I will look into getting some of the flywheels made that way.
