K&N SRI Installation Fail
 

I got my intake delivered today and I can confirm that MY filter indeed has the metal strip on the furthest part of the filter away from the inlet. The K&N symbol would also be upside down if you are looking at the filter with the metal strip on the top.

I just ran torque with my car for a few miles and have an average LTFT of +15 and a STFT that went anywhere between 7 and -7 depending on engine load. This was STOCK with GMS1.

Here comes the fun though:

Upon removing the stock intake tube I noticed a LOT of oil covering the inside of the tube as well as a slight pooling up of it on the turbo inlet. Although this sounds to be about normal. I am ordering the Powell PCV separator soon to remedy this. I also want to take the car into the dealer (under powertrain) and have them clean the valves. See photo:
Attachment 35250


I installed the intake and then fired up the car. Horrible. I oriented the filter with the majority of it upward (like I've read here). The first time I tried starting it the car would not start, just turned over repeatedly. The second time I tried to start it it did start but the car idles extremely rough at about 730-750 rpms with slight surging in the idle, the exhaust has numerous small popping sounds under any load, and the LTFT was still at +15. My headlights were dimming as well as the dash lights (seatbelt, DIC). Throttle was very laggy in response, was not consistent. It felt like I was losing power with more throttle. Then my buddy went to give it some throttle after some idling and POP, there was a loud bang/pop that came right from the intake (I was on the other side of the car so I only heard it).

I checked the fitment of everything and it seemed good. Then after eating dinner and trying to become un-frustrated, I replaced the stock air intake and the car ran just fine. Stock does have some rough idle periodically during warm up.

I made a video so that I could show you all and of course it somehow became corrupted on my phone (FML). To further the fun my buddy dropped the tube into the plastic bag when we were cleaning up not realizing there is no bottom letting the tube hit the ground and put a nice dent in the filter end that I made him round out (still looks like crap).

My only idea to solve the problem is to reinstall it later and loosen the filter and rotate it as the car is running to see if I can get any better results.

Any suggestions? Thanks guys...

Did you plug the maf in / put it in backwards? Lol.


Also I don't think cleaning the valves is under warranty. If there offering it tho take it

I was just assuming. I'd rather do it myself anyway.

And the maf will only fit one way.

Atleast I'm not the only one that has problems with aftermarket air filters lol. My car, even when tuned for it by trifecta, runs like absolute crap when I have my K&N sri on.

Sounds like you might have a vacuum leak or problems else ware.

+15 good god.

Ltft is around 7. Maybe you are doing something wrong

This, def seems like something wasn't correct beyound just the intake install changing everything.

Almost looks like the filter was over oiled, cause that oil starts before the PVC inlet. Clean ur maf and start it without a filter on and see what it does. Then put filter on and try again.

Thatsss alot of oil.. The oil I see that pools there is brown/ black. I too think somethings up, at the idle the car should be normal. 15+ may be a leak, or you may just have a car that doesnt like intakes.

That pic was from the stock intake at 25200 miles looking from the turbo inlet side.

The car runs fine other than a slightly rough idle at times with the stock airbox and also has the 15 ltft when completely stock. No mods other than GMS1 installed by previous owner.

Also, I do have torque so I can give anyone any readings that they would find useful i.e. vacuum, boost, MAF g/s, etc.

Did you pull the battery while installing the intake? Otherwise your LTFT will take a long time to change

Terminator2, heres your answer from previous thread. Stock airbox with GMS1 = +15% LTFT.

Its not your K&N intake causing the high LTFT then. There has to be a vacuum leak somewhere. Any CELs? are the GMS1 sensors seated properly? I once had an issue where the vacuum hose on the lower charge pipe snapped off and cause a -18% LTFT, car still boosted to 15psi on stock tune at the time too.

I did pull the battery while installing. Car will boost to around 18 psi. (I am at 0-600ft elev)

No CELs. Drove the car the 20mi to work today and the trims settled to about +13. Is that mean rich or lean?

I will check the bosch sensors tonight after work as well as look for any leaks.

Thanks for the help so far. I appreciate it.

Make sure that they have the correct 0-rings. Black is what you need.

The issue is not your intake, it's all that oil going into it. if your stock intake did 15 and your aftermarket one did 15 then nothing changed.

true m33pm33p. But regardless, I think 15+ LTFT like that is a leak of some kind. Im with terminator2 on this one, a positive fuel trim like that means your running lean, which in turn mean you have unmetered air entering the system vacuum side. theres a leak somewhere. before the turbo probably.


Oh hey, where did you get that neat quote CCSS3? :lol:

Correct.

OP there are only so many places you could have a leak. You sure the MAF, recirc tube and tube attached to turbo are leak free?

Obviously not the intakes fault.

I am aware the intake is not causing the LTFT issue, however it also did not work compared to the stock airbox.

I just checked the two Bosch sensors and they have blue o rings. Incorrect orings right?

And I am assuming i can use electric parts cleaner for the maf?

My trims on the way home (20 miles) averaged 14.8.

Wrong o-rings.


right o-rings.
O-RING 3 Bar Map Sensor 12626998

You need 2. You'll tear one putting it on. Buy 4. 12 bucks. Bet you can swing 12 bucks.

air filter metal rib thing is a bullshit hoax, I've proven it true in another thread somewhere. Every filter comes with the rib in a different place.

Correct, hopefully this fixes the positive fuel trims.... although I feel that you would be showing negative fuel trims if this is your problem since these sensors are on the "charged air side" - charged air would blow out the gaps causing a loss of metered air and the engine would be running rich.

Heres a neat experiment, stay in boost for a while, I dont mean floor it, just keep the rpms low like say your in 5th gear @ 35mph and giving it enough gas to hold around 5psi or so. See if the fuel trims start going in the negative directions.

My theory being, if you just daily drive this to work and what not, your mainly in vacuum so you would be taking in unmetered air through the gaps in the charge piping and intake manifold left by these incorrect o-rings.

Doesnt mean the positioning of the filter doesnt change air flow across the MAF. The general consensus is the bulge of the filter facing up, not that the metal rib must be facing up. That was originally stated cause alot of the filters seemed to have the metal rib at the pinnacle of the bulge and was mentioned as a reference.

14.8 is still really high. If it hits +18.0 LTFT I believe you will get a CEL. The fact that the car is correcting for this leak enough to prevent a CEL kinda says that the leak is very small.

You should be okay using that cleaner on the MAF, as long as no power is running to it lol.

^That and that are not right. I think you guys may have already figured it out in this thread, but I'm just reiterating some points. GMS1 should boost more than 18 psi even at 0-600 ft elevation. I'm around/below 800 ft elevation and I would see 21 psi on mine. I ran the K&N sri and GMS1 for quite a few miles now, and with the properly oriented bulge, I never saw more than +7% ltft.

Will do. My idea was that it was drawing air passed the o rings into the charge pipe since I'm usually in vacuum.

O rings have been ordered! Thanks for the help!

Where did anyone mention the metal rib location? And the rotation of the filter does effect fuel trims, watched it happen on mine.

I mentioned placing my metal rib at 1130.

My metal rib happens to be at the high point of the lobe. Therefore i could use it as an indicator.

Tried the boost test on my way to work this morning.

Trims settled to 10.2 if under boost. 14.8 if coasting in gear. 23-25 if coasting in neutral. No CELs.

There was a noticable drop when I went into boost. Right after leaving the driveway it was most apparent as the trims had not settled.

My theory on why the intake would not work is that since I am already so lean, the car could not compensate well enough once I put the less restrictive intake on resulting in rough idle and poor overall performance.
Basically, adding the intake just made the problem worse.

Yup. Going Straight To 10 Like That Pretty Much Makes The Leak Appear To Be On The Charged Side. I HoperReplacing The O-ringS Fixes Your problem

I was planning on jacking the car up to double check for any leaks as well as clean the maf with some electric parts spray. The two bosch sensors (on the IM and the lower charge pipe) seem to be kind of dirty. Do you think it'd be safe to give them a quick jet too?

Still waiting on the O-rings. Paying 7.50 for shipping through a USPS envelope seemed kind of steep.

Pull them and see if theres oil on them, if they look clean then Id just leave them alone. Its a good idea to look for any small cracks in the system. The factory intercooler is notorious for the condenser bar getting cracked or smashed off. Its pretty obvious when it happens. Another spot could be the plastic endtanks (you'd actually have to take the bumper off to get a good look at it. and yet a third spot could be the plastic "nipple" that one of the vac lines connects to near the lower MAP sensor.

Those are the spots that ive seen

Example photos of cracked ICs just so you can see why pulling the bumper is necessary. Obviously these are really bad and there would be no boost what so ever.

https://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...3kV6L6rCcumBJw

Attachment 64851

https://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...p1uqGeBG1ZnINk

Cant find any photos, but the condenser bar may also be damaged or separated. If its separated at the screw side, not the clip side, it will cause a boost leak.

Attachment 64852
^Thats it, and that one looks like it hit a curb bad lol.

I inspected everything including taking off the upper charge pipe but do not go as far as the front bumper.

New o rings arrived today. Installed the o rings and cleaned the sensors first and reset the fuel trims.

Trims stayed at 0 for about a half mile and then slowly migrated to 7 where they held for a mile. Then they migrated further to settle to 10.9 under load, 11.6 coasting in gear, and 12.2 neutral coasting. Total of about 3 miles of driving in 80 degree weather.

Not sure if this is good enough as I was very close to claiming victory when they held at 7.

Also just raised the car and did a thorough inspection. Found a scuff on the condenser passenger side and found very small cracks running through the piece that a bolt runs through to mount the condenser to the plastic IC housing. Tried poking it with a sharp dental pick and it only seemed superficial. Tried spraying a jet of ether to see if it was leaking there but no luck.

And stupid question but when I put my hand over the pcv vent coupling at the intake tube I hear a tone change but ether did nothing. The arrow on the check valve is pointing towards the valve cover, is this normal? I would think flow would be towards the intake.

I have blue O-rings in mine. When the kit first came out they we're what was supplied with it (I found an original install document), it appears the black ones have replaced those now from what I have been reading.

Try a bottle of soap and water and spray on connections. Bubbles=leak.

I was thinking that but in vacuum I don't think I'd make bubbles. Extra air is getting in not out. Thats why I tried starting fluid.

Well thats alot better, if your still on the stock airbox, they should be closer to +/- 3.0 I think for GMS1.

I still think thats pretty high LTFT for factory installed system. Spraying soapy water is still not a bad idea, coupled with a boost leak tester. Something like dawn dish detergeant mixed with water. For a system with a leak to manage the fuel adjustments and hold them the best it can, it has to be a small leak. The condenser bar is not out of the question to me. A scruff tells me it had an impact with something and could possibly have made a crack all the way through. Spray the soapy water there with a boost leak tester hooked up. Somebody here probably has directions for making one easy and cheap

When I had a boost leak, it was the plastic nipple on the lower MAP sensor snapped off and the vac line floating around in their, it gave me a CEL. I mean thats a pencil tip sized hole.

Taking the bumper off isnt too tough, I'd save it for the weekend though. Should be okay to drive it normally for the time being and maybe get some more miles down to see where the LTFTs move too.


This sounds like it going to come down to taking the whole intake system out and carefully inspecting each part.

Yeah this is normal. The intakes always under vacuum so air should be pulled into the valve cover as a "vent in" and another braided hose leads from the valve cover to the turbo or just before it still on vacuum side to "vent out". This is where oil can get pulled into the intake system.

Thats my understanding of it, never pulled it apart to really inspect it, Someone will correct me if im wrong :p

Here you go, I found a link. Too bad the photos are broken linked.

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/how-...tester-193561/

Youtube video